Tab problem in Scribus

[utnik]

hi caruso

when i place the cursor at the left of the dollar sign in the first line of your file and hit 'backspace', then all is aligned well. the same happens with 'backspace' from the tab position (a bit more to the left).

usually, there are automatic tabs wich are active on the right of your rightmost user defined tab. these aren't displayed in the text rulers. but they are defined in 'document setup' → 'tools'. (in your file every inch – see screenshot...)

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[GarryP]

I've tested Caruso's workflow as mentioned earlier and I can confirm that I got the same result, as can be seen in the attached image (imageA).

This has been repeated on Mac OS X 10.6.8 with:
* Scribus 1.4.1 (30 April 2012 Build ID: C-C-T-F-C1.12.0-Mac/Aqua Using Ghostscript version 8.71), and
* Scribus 1.5.0.svn (12 June 2012 Build ID: C-C-T-F-PC1.9.99-Mac/Aqua-64bit
Using Ghostscript version 8.71)

However, after some experimenting, editing the text directly in the frame, I found some other related oddness.

When I removed the word "one" from the first line, the tabbed numbers returned to where you'd expect them to be (imageB).

Then I added some different text "my f" to the start of the first line and the tabbed numbers moved to the right until the "f" was typed after the space, then the tabbed numbers moved to where you'd expect (imageC).

Removing this new text and typing something different again "hello there everyone" the tabbed numbers again moved to the right, visually by the same distance as the width of the added text (imageD).

All of this suggests, to me at least, that something is a bit awry with the handling of tabs as Caruso suggests but that the problem is intermittent depending on the actual text used (maybe just in the first line).

(I can't see how this particular issue could be related to the automatic tab stops but I'd be happy to learn otherwise as it all seems strange to me, and I'm guessing other new users would be similarly confused.)

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[carusoswi]

GaryP:
Thank you for taking the time to confirm this issue.  I am not certain if it is a problem or if it is me and my newness to the application. 
Caruso

[Nermander]

I just downloaded the file and opened it.

On the line with $12,542.00 there is an extra tab before the $ sign. It can be clearly shown by loooking in the SLA:

Code Select Expand

            <ITEXT CH="This is a test"/>
            <para>
                <Tabs Type="2" Pos="245" Fill="."/>
            </para>
            <ITEXT CH="test"/>
            <tab/>
            <tab/>
            <ITEXT CH="$12,542.00"/>
            <para>
                <Tabs Type="2" Pos="245" Fill="."/>
            </para>
            <ITEXT CH="test"/>
            <tab/>
            <ITEXT CH="$12,542.00"/>
            <trail>
                <Tabs Type="2" Pos="245" Fill="."/>
            </trail>

[carusoswi]

Ok, I would work on this some more, but I have drawn a blank as to how to locate that tabulator.  I know it is somewhere in the properties box, and I thought it was under the Text tab, but cannot now find it for the life of me.
Help!
Thanks.
Caruso

[Nermander]

No no no, you are missing the point.

There is a tab character in the line. That tab character moves the position beyond your set tab position to the next tab set at the "default distance".

See the code I included, I cleaned it up a bit. What you have on that line is

test<tab/><tab/>$12,542.00

What you should have is

test<tab/>$12,542.00

There are always tab positions in i paragraph even if there are none set manually. Those default tab positions are evenly spaced at a set distance. When you set at tab manually all "default TAB positions" before that tab becomes void, but at the end of the line there are usually default tab positions set.

Where would you otherwise expect the position to end up if you press TAB once more when at the manually set tab position? Outside the page?

So, what you need to do is just delete the extra tab before the $ sign.

[carusoswi]

Thanks for the reply, but on my machine, backspacing takes the text back to the left.
I am new to Scribus, but have a fair amount of experience with other DTP programs.

I did not put that extra tab there, and, why does it only occur on the first line of text, and not subsequent lines.

And, now, I am doubly stumped, because I cannot get back to that dialog where I was entering the tabs - I know it's a bit off topic, but, how do I get back there?

Thanks.

Caruso

[Nermander]

For me, placing the cursor before the $ sign and backspacing took away the extra tab character.

I could also see it if I used the right/left arrow keys to move the cursor on the line.

[utnik]

hi caruso

the area for editing your tabs is a bit hidden – you'll find it under 'properties' → 'text' → 'columns & text distances' → 'tabulators'.
but your problem is not located there. it's in your text!

i don't know what you are doing, but if you delete the extra tab, the alignement will be as expected – you probably still mix up the tab character with the defined tab position...

utnik

[carusoswi]

thanks, utnik.
Gonna open me up a new doc and give it another try.
Caruso

[carusoswi]

ok, I tried again.  Workflow:

(no dollar signs this time)

Open Scribus, open new document, auto text frame.
Place input cursor on line one, left side.
Type "This is a test12000" or whatever the number was.  Notice, no space, no chance for an errant tab.
Go to tabulator frame, set period tab at 4" with period separator.
Place input curosr between "test" and number.
Hit tab key once.
Number moves to right with periods filling in the blank space between text and number.
Use arrow key to move input curosr to a position right of number.
Hit return.
Retype the first line and use tabulator to recreate tab as in first line.
Place cursor between text and number.
Hit tab once.
Result: Text moves right, but not as far as that on line 1.
Two tabs do not line up.

Now, what is it that I am missing?

Help, please - sample file attached.

Caruso

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[utnik]

hi caruso

after a trial to reproduce your problem, i played a bit with your sample file...
i found out that the problem only persists with the following adjustments:

• font is 'arial' (none of my favorites)
• line spacing is set to 'fixed' or 'automatic' (i usually work with a baseline grid...)
• first line offset is 'maximum ascent'

this remains strange, but you can avoid it easy.
(i'm not sure, if it's a scribus bug or an arial problem – maybe both...)

my suggestions are:

• avoid 'arial'
• file a bug report at bugs. scribus.net.

utnik

[carusoswi]

Thanks for looking into my file, Utnik.
I tried again, this time using Times New Roman.
Result seems the same to me.

I actually typed both lines, then highlighted both and set the tabs for both at the same time.

Have a look at this one, please?

Thanks.

Caruso

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[utnik]

hi caruso

earlier i checked some 20 fonts and all of them showed correct alignment, even with 'fixed line spacing' and 'maximum ascent' for the first line offset. now i found some more fonts with the strange behavior (times new roman is one of them.) – as written in my last post, you can solve the problem with an alignment to the baseline grid or a more serious entry for the first line offset than this hard core space saver...

with a couple of affected fonts, it really looks as a scribus bug – you should file a bug report.

with a closer look at your file i found something strange (see code snippet)

Code Select Expand

    <ITEXT FONT="Times New Roman Regular" CH="Test"/>
            <tab FONT="Times New Roman Regular"/>
            <ITEXT FONT="Times New Roman Regular" CH="124567.00"/>
            <para>
                <Tabs Type="2" Pos="289" Fill="."/>
            </para>
            <ITEXT FONT="Times New Roman Regular" CH="Test"/>
            <tab FONT="Times New Roman Regular"/>
            <ITEXT FONT="Times New Roman Regular" CH="124597.00"/>
            <trail>
                <Tabs Type="2" Pos="289" Fill="."/>
            </trail>
   

in the first line the tab is between 'para' tags, in the second between 'trail' tags. in your arial file it was the same.
when i look at my files, it's always 'para'.
i don't think, that this is related with the bad alignment, but it looks strange...

utnik

[carusoswi]

I signed up to post in the bugs forum and will post a sample there sometime today.  Needing to leave the office for home right now.
Caruso