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Jensus

Mixing text and images - and locking the images to the text

I'll reframe my question. Say that you want to create a cookbook, a mix of text and photos.
How would you go about it in Scribus?

I am trying to put together a chapter of my book (which isn't a cookbook, but you can thing of it like that, text and images 50/50). The image part is very important. I just can't figure out how Scribus handles images in text. Say that I want to insert a photo in the text and have the photo move with the text if I edit the text above it somewhere. The image needs to be "locked" in position within the text so to say. With a text box this does not work, when I alter the text the image stays in the same position on the page so that now the photo and the text are out of position.
I tried to copy-paste the photo (actually a whole box) into text, then it works - the photo is locked in position. But I can't select the photo, change it's size or do anything. How does this work?

I found two mentions of this in other threads:
Linking images to text: https://forums.scribus.net/index.php?topic=991.0
Make image flow with associated text: https://forums.scribus.net/index.php?topic=811.0

In the last thread someone says: "Scribus does not yet have a good way to anchor an image to a location in the text. "
If that is still true, I am amazed, because that to me is such a basic and totally necessary thing so I can't believe how others can do without it. Is it really true? If so, Scribus can be used to make like magazine pages, like creating something like a flyer with one or a few pages, fixing the design and then it's done, not creating a longer document with both text and images, because it would be insane if I made a 100 page book with 50 images in, then having to add a section of text in one text frame and it is all out of position. Or if you change the font size and image positions and text wouldn't match and you would have to edit the whole document.

a.l.e

I would dare to say that LibreOffice should be usable for this task. But you would need to use it in the "right" way... and it might be not obvious to do that.

Scribus can probably do it too.
But you'd better to first create the content, with "minimal" formatting in something like LibreOffice and then import it into Scribus for the final layout.

I would suggest you to work on a few (10 - 20) demo pages to check if and how you can achieve your goal.

Jensus

Thanks ale,
I did try, but no success. What I can't understand is how to lock an image into the text so that if I add or remove text before it the image moves with the new position of the text within the frame. I think this may be something Scribus can not do, there was a bug report about this: https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=4831

I would think this is something very much necessary for many.
LibreOffice can do it in theory, but in practice it does not work and many have gone insane about LibreOffice inability to keep images where they should be. I have completely given up on LibreOffice and I think it is a piece of crap.

I did create text content with minimal formatting (I already have it), imported it into Scribus, where the plan was to add images. I could only do it, as I mentioned, by copy-paste an image frame with image in it into the text. But then it seems this image can not be edited in any way and I can not add a text caption. It could work, but it is cumbersome and a bit silly, it means for every image I want to include I must first create an image frame with the image, copy-cut it and paste in into the text. I suspect also there may be problems with this down the line, it doesn't seem the right way to go about it (possible wrapping or positioning problems, not that I encountered them but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened later..). But maybe I am doing it wrong, and maybe Scribus can somehow keep images in a text and make them stay in the right position no matter if the text in some other place in the frame is altered?

a.l.e

On the one side (the one on topic is here), Scribus is not made for getting the image to flow with the text.
To some extent, you can achieve that (inline images) but I would not do it for bigger images and also not for a longer text.
Scribus has been created to let you define how the layout physically will look like, not to define logical rules for it.

So, yes, Scribus will keep "your images in the right position": by not moving them by one single millimeter!
Or you can put them inline and they will follow the text. Step by step.
But this is probably not what you mean when you say "where they should be".

I really have no idea, how you plan to design your pages and it is very hard to give your specific hints on the choices you should take.

Personally, with Scribus I tend to work on rather small documents, where it's mostly fine to manually adjust the position of the images.
If you want them to "logically" follow the text, I don't know what can be called a good choice.
The last larger work that might be similar to your task, was completed with \Latex.
And, I guess, Latex is the only (free; or cheap) system that allows to get things to mostly be correctly positioned, to be "where they should be" (and even Latex does not manage it in every cases).
Probably, Indesign is also able to at least do an okayish job.

Somehow, I have the feeling that you still need to learn a bit more about the technologies you plan to use.
Starting with such a big and complex project is also probably not the optimal way to get into the topic... but since it's your motivator, it's hard to change that : - )

On the other side (the one about LibreOffice): personally I mostly go for images placed as a character or at a fixed place relative to the page.
If you want them to be at the top or bottom of the page, relative to a reference in the text, you're indeed a bit in troubled waters.
But do you really need that?

Jensus

Thanks again for your advice. Yes, this is my motivator, to get this project done! I am passionate about it.
I think Scribus is not the right option, it is probably not optimal for such a long document with image heavy content. I guess it is more suited to text only or mostly, or one or a couple of pages with complex layouts mixing text and images.

It has been very difficult to find something suitable. I have tried Atticus (got my money back today, nice customer support), Calibre, Manuskript, Reedsy, Abiword, Calligra Words and researched Affinity Publisher, Papyrus, Scrivener (could maybe do the job, but complex), Poe-writer, Writing Master, Narrative Writer, Focus Writer, Ulysses (mac only), Dabble, Novlr, Etherpad, Ywriter (win), Quoll Writer and Blurb BookWright.
Scribus is very feature rich, much more than most of the above. However image handling is a problem, which was a bit surprising, for both Scribus and almost all of the above. Maybe such works are completed mostly in InDesign.

I just found and installed WPS Writer for Linux :)  Haven't done any deeper work with it yet, but so far it looks good, I managed to create a page with an image that stays in place even if I modify text before it on the page. It seems to be a free software and I will check it out some more.

LibreOffice and its horrid image handling is not an option, I need to have the images flow in the text, "where they should be". This is a book about analog electronics with lots of instructions in photos and images like schematics, it is important that they stay in place and I prefer to have them in the text rather than always on the bottom e t c.

a.l.e

I somehow don't understand what you mean by

Quoteit is important that they stay in place and I prefer to have them in the text rather than always on the bottom e t c.

You keep on saying "where they should be", without really defining what exactly means.

Anyway, my stance:

  • If you want to place your images at specific positions, with a specific size, then Scribus can easily do that.
  • Your problem with placing images is very likely a consequence of a wrong manipulation on your side, and probably not a shortcoming of Scribus (I don't understand what is going wrong, but loading images in a text frame is something all the Scribus users are doing all the time; there are even multiple good way to do it... but in your case, only the most cumbersome ones seem to be working.)

Of course:

  • Scribus is not the best tool for a longer technical book with many images. But you seem to be far from noticing the real reasons why that's so.
  • Still, it might be the best tool among the ones that are free and "easy" to use.
  • And there is probably no perfect tool for technical books (There used to be Frame Maker, which was told to be exactly that. But it has been bought by Adobe many years ago and I really have no idea what it's state is nowadays)

At the end, but -- I repeat and formulate it a bit differently -- creating about 20 pages of your documentation with one of the tools, might be more helpful for you to understand what are your real needs. Probably better than evaluating in a superficial way a dozen of very different software.

You're going to learn a new craft: it will take some time and dedication.

AdmFubar

What you prolly need to use is TeX. It is designed with technical documents in mind.
Using Scribus 1.5.8 & 1.6.3, 1.7.0 openSUSE 15.5
Advanced hobbyist

Jensus

I will try to explain "where they should be" regarding images.
I am writing a technical book. This is a section from it:
Spectrally measured signal to noise ratio versus power supply induced noise
-image of oscilloscope screen-
Visible peaks at 50Hz, 100Hz, 150Hz, 200Hz and 300Hz.


In the text above the image must be locked there inbetween those lines, not locked in position on the page, no matter if I rewrite something above it and the text section moves to the next page, the image must move with it.

I will use the software not only to format but do some writing. For example I may want to add some text above. The image must move with it. I have not managed to get this to work in Scribus, the image is locked on a position on the page, not locked in relationship to the text. In Word you anchor an image to text, and it moves if you write, add, delete e t c. But not in Scribus, from what I have found. Not if you use an image frame in any case.

(Or maybe I have misunderstood this image positioning thing and overlooked some basic trick..)

You're right, I am not sure why Scribus is unsuitable for a longer technical book with many images. Trying to find out. My book is massively image oriented, I'd say it is 40% images.
I did try to create some documents. Did not manage to make it work very well. I understand this is a new craft, and it will take time to learn. I am not a complete beginner though, I wrote my graduation thesis in university in Word, but that was 20 years ago. It was both text and images.

AdmFubar, thanks for the advice, yes I have heard about LaTex, is that what you are referring to? I haven't checked that one out yet.

a.l.e

Let make one thing clear:

If you are going to create a longer document and really want the images to follow the text ("inline" or at the top / bottom of the page), then Scribus is currently NOT part of the solution.

You might be able to do it with LibreOffice, but it probably requires lot of discipline to get it to work right.
An alternative would be some sort of Latex (Context?) or even Typst (but it does not seem to have a mature HTML output for Epub).
But I'm not sure you will be comfortable with them.

And, then, there are lot of proprietary tools you can use...
But that's not among the topics of this forum.

AdmFubar

LayTeX is a front for TeX, so yes that may work for you.
Using Scribus 1.5.8 & 1.6.3, 1.7.0 openSUSE 15.5
Advanced hobbyist

Jensus

I found WPS Writer, which seems to work like MS Word (which I haven't used for very long). It is easier to use for this purpose than LibreOffice, image handling is much smoother. For what I see now, WPS Writer is the solution for this kind of document.

If that would not work, Affinity may be an option. It's a professional book editing software that seems to be able to do what I want.

I will keep Scribus, because I have another book project, which is more text and less images, for which Scribus will probably be very useful.

Thanks all for your help.