Decimals and time in Scribus

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Flaxx

Hi there,

Compared to any office writer app (like in LibreOffice) the handling of numbers is different in Scribus as it neither knows a time notation, nor the usual decimal depiction in German.
I would expect a picture like this in German (first column) and English (the second one), both compared to Scribus:   
    DE           EN      Scribus 1.6.4
     9            9            9
     5,034        5.034        5,034
 1.201,66     1,201,66     1,201.66
     9:15         9:15      9:15
In English only the time depiction is ignored. An improvement would be on my wish list.

AdmFubar

In preferences/document setup/general tab is the language set to german?
Using Scribus1.6.1, 1.7.0 openSUSE 15.6
Advanced hobbyist

Flaxx

Quote from: AdmFubar on September 18, 2025, 11:44:21 PMIn preferences/document setup/general tab is the language set to german?

Yes, it is. BTW, today, half an hour ago, I had a fight against the time format "h:mm" again. I'd been only happy that I just had 30 Minutes to think about. In other cases it's really hard to bring the ":" lined up in a column.

AdmFubar

Are you using a mono-spaced font for the numbers?
Using Scribus1.6.1, 1.7.0 openSUSE 15.6
Advanced hobbyist

Flaxx

Quote from: AdmFubar on September 22, 2025, 12:12:06 AMAre you using a mono-spaced font for the numbers?
We are using as standard font Liberation Serif. The monthly paper has more than 25 years of history and was produced by using MS Word and "Times New Roman" until mid last year. Mono-spaced fonts just for numbers would kill the picture. We are talking about short lists of meeting times, departures of trains or buses, and the expected end of excursions of hiking tours of our members. The used format is like 9 Uhr, 9:13 Uhr, 15:47 Uhr in three lines followed by some explaining text. In other context it doesn't matter. Aligning the colons is a pain in the back. It needs the magnification of the text and fiddling with the TAB-markers each time.

Writing this in LibreOffice would right-allign all leading numbers. I just used for my examples in the first posting the code-tag as I wasn't aware how to show it in HTML.

Actually, I've tumbled over the colon. Listing birthdays ("d. mmmm") is no problem as its just a leading integer. Fortunately we don't need lists of prices - others might. Think about restaurants.  :o

Scribus' handling of colons is in my opinion a bug that should be fixed and it's perfectly done in any office-application I've used.

AdmFubar

Can we see a short example of how you are actually using it in a document. I'm sure there is a solution. A table might work for you.
Using Scribus1.6.1, 1.7.0 openSUSE 15.6
Advanced hobbyist

a.l.e

#6
As far as I can tell, Scribus does not retain the language for the decimal tab, but has specific definitions for comma tabs and period tabs.

I would say that for times, the workaround would be to use a right tab for the colon and a left tab for the minutes:

left-right-tab.png

It needs a bit of tweaking, it does not guarantee a perfect spacing, but it might be good enough...

I wonder how Scribus could improve there.
Personally, I'm not convinced that using the language to define the stopping character is a good idea.
As an example, I have the feeling that in the language being used around me, both the dot and comma are used: it depends on the context (of course, a specific document will use one of both).

The best I could think of is:

  • Scribus should have only a decimal tab, not a period and a comma tab (migration: if the document is using decimal tabs, set the value to the one used; if both are used, set each tab individually)
  • The user can set the preferred stop char in the preferences
  • The user can override the preferred stop char in the document settings
  • For each tab definition, the user can override the stop char (it's a bit tricky to do in the main ruler, but I'm sure we can find a good solution!)

What do people think?

Flaxx

#7
Quote from: a.l.e on September 25, 2025, 09:55:18 AMI would say that for times, the workaround would be to use a right tab for the colon and a left tab for the minutes:

It needs a bit of tweaking, it does not guarantee a perfect spacing, but it might be good enough...
That's exactly what I tried and you're right, it means fiddling each time again as the correct position changes depending on the leading numbers - not funny at all. Furthermore, it even doesn't look right for some numbers , specifically "4", >:( Even in best cases the causing gap is a bit too wide. In your example the left cursor edge would be the correct position for the "3", for my personal taste.

My solution: I started aligning the whole strings individually by using an aid line and the right cursor. It felt a bit less painful.

My main concern is that at the moment Scribus doesn't recognise the colon at all. It is not connected to any used language and is even an international standard, ISO 8601, based on the European EN 28601:1992. Just a strong recommendation, not binding at all. However, I believe it should be used not only in office applications.

I sincerely hope that your proposals can be realised in a way that those settings can be easily done. At the moment even selecting the right tab requires good eyes.

An additional feature request could be, offering in the tab's context menu the possibility, setting its exact value via the keyboard.

a.l.e

As far as I can tell, you should be able to get the same alignment with the pair of tabs (first the right one, then the left one) as you get with one tab stopping at a colon.

the hours will be right aligned and the minutes left aligned.

Flaxx

Quote from: a.l.e on September 26, 2025, 05:46:51 PMAs far as I can tell, you should be able to get the same alignment with the pair of tabs (first the right one, then the left one) as you get with one tab stopping at a colon.

the hours will be right aligned and the minutes left aligned.
In general I can agree, However, I think (!!!) that I can see a difference width of the gaps before the colon and after. On the other hand I'm sure that most readers wouldn't see the same and almost everybody wouldn't care. ;D

Hey, the best would be if the devs could include the colon like it's done in office aps like LibreOffice Writer and really cool if your proposals how to handle such numbers would be realised.

Have a nice day.