Pagination in OS-X 10.13, Scribus crashing "Signal-6"

[JohnJR]

Hi,

Twice I have had a"Scribus Crash-Signal 6" while trying to make pagination (automatic page numbering) work as advertised.  I now believe pagination was also the cause of a "Scribus Crash-Signal 11" two years that was never resolved.  I have no idea or ability to discern what these crashes technically are, they seem to involve code or programming somehow.  However I wonder if they might have in common--mac OS-X.  The crash in the past involved Scribus 1.4. and OS-X 10.12.6.  The two recent crashes involve Scribus 1.5.2 and OS-X 10.13.6; my 2009 iMac can go no higher than this OS.

I can't really describe the moment of the crashes, what I might have been doing, because they come so out of the blue.  I will try to give a record of what I was doing and the result because I'm guessing there is some tiny sequence of actions that isn't explained anywhere that I can find that are necessary.  I think they might have occurred when I was going back from something in pagination as explained that didn't work.

This is the first time I'm trying to apply the Master Page and Paragraph Style philosophy as Scribus intends rather than using it as a glorified typewriter, so I thought I was doing everything right.  My document is set up with Master Pages that were created on document pages and then Page>Convert To Master Page.  I then used Page>Apply Master Pages to populate them throughout the document leaving blank pages as the two default "Normal" Pages.

The pages requiring page numbers were created and converted on the Master Pages with small, but large enough, text boxes centered at the bottom, outside the page body/text margins like a footer.  At that moment I didn't have any instruction that I had to activate them somehow as number boxes.  Most of the instruction suggested this was part of the Document Set Up Sections, not the Master Page creation.  I think I've learned later that it has to be set up in the Master Pages, which makes eminent sense in hindsight (see below). 

Once I had my document set up with Master Pages, I was able, I think, to figure out that any text I wanted in the headers needed to be in those places before they were applied to the document, so Edit>Master Pages and type in repeating text with some little x's in the lower right-hand corner that turned out to be justification fits, but finally I got it.  Apply Master Pages and voila the repeated text appeared on every document page where designated.  This is where my pagination crashes began.

Looking at what tutorials were available, pagination was activated by File>Document Setup>Sections and I first set the dialog to begin on the interior page (9) where page one was to show and run through the pages where numbers were required.  I went to the document and noted that the little page number frame highlighted was not populated.  I checked the Section dialog box again and noted it was designated to start on the correct interior page (from), but the ending page (to) had reverted not to the multiple page value inserted but to the next odd page over (11), no matter what I did this reversion back persisted every time it was corrected.

I thought I must be confusing the Sections dialog box by not have a value designated for the first eight pages before (9), so I assigned small numerals to pages 1-8 and clicked off "shown".  This made no difference.

Somewhere in one of the forums there was a statement that the Sections dialog really didn't work properly and that one should highlight the number frame and then use Insert>Character>Page Number instead.  I followed that path only to find Page Number greyed out, not active.  I tried double clicking the frame to activate the cursor, checked the Sections dialog and followed the same path (Insert), and this time the >Page Number was active.  When I clicked it however the only result was another little red x-box (overflow?) in the lower right corner of the number box.

I think both times that Scribus crashed was when I tried to use Edit>Undo to go back from the little red x-box.  I was able to recover my document, but random Master Pages and their application disappeared.  Autosave was activated in both Preferences and Document Setup.

Somewhere else on Google, a narrative came up that seemed to be the reasonable solution all along; that pagination, at least for it's text frames, should be part of the Master Pages.  Furthermore somewhere in the past and continuing today on the Master Pages, one highlights the number text frame then uses Insert>Character>Page Number and one or two # symbols would appear as a place holder.  So Edit>Master Pages and voila the little # appears (only one).  This seemed to be the actual path that should be used and not the document's Sections dialog, at least to begin with.  With the Master Pages configured with the #'s, I went back into my document and highlighted the numbers frame according to the Sections dialog and went to Insert>Character>...Page Number is greyed out.  It would not activate.  I returned to the Sections dialog and found that my configuration had altered itself in one manner; the Right page that was selected to start a shown pagination of 1 remained, but the dialog had discarded the value for the length of pagination, in this case 64, and replaced it with the next Right page over (11).  No amount of corrections to 64 would change this behavior once the dialog was closed with "OK".  At this point, that reversion was moot because the Insert route was greyed out anyway.

At this point what suddenly seemed simple is the Sections dialog will not work until the the document page number frame is populated with the #.  So if I perhaps go back to my document and re-Apply the Master Pages again with this #addition, it should solve the problem.  It didn't work.  What happened when I selected the first selected document page (Right) to re-Apply it's Master Page, the re-Applied Master Page duplicated itself again, to it's left, as another page.  I did an Edit>Undo and tried it a second time.  This attempt didn't create a duplicate but gave me a new Right page in it's place with the numbers frame containing, not a # symbol but a black (overflow text?) x-box in the lower right corner.  This seemed dubious but for the moment I accepted it.  I continued with the remaining Left and Right Master Pages and their corresponding #.  I noted they changed in the document, but not with the #, but with the now black x-box.  Neither the Sections "OK" added page numbers nor the Insert>Character>Page Number, which remained greyed out (inactive).

I went back into the Sections dialog and added new pagination sections for every location where the Master Page changed from the previous one even though the page numbers would flow un-interuppted  (there are no blank pages interceding).  This made no difference.  However, similar to the reversion described above for 9 and 11, the dialog would erase an entered number and and replace it with the number of pages for the entire document and create a warning dialog that I had exceeded the page count.  After repeated corrections I was able to get the Sections dialog to hold for the correct order of pages, but as I said, this made no difference.

Given the craziness of the Signal crashes, I did note something in one of the tutorials for pagination, a picture only of I believe an old Windows Sections dialog that showed, without reference, that the selections button were: Add, Delete, Defaults, Apply, OK, Cancel.
I note on my mac OS-X the same dialog has only four selection buttons:  Add, Delete, OK, Cancel.  Most telling there is no "Apply" and that might be why nothing is working.

The only thing I can think of now is to save all my Master Pages as Templates, which I think there is a way to do, close my document and create a whole new document and apply the saved Master Pages (with their #-boxes), now templates and see if somehow the document itself was corrupted.  If this works, I will post it here.

Thanks,

[JohnJR]

Hi,

Following my first post above, I was able to just create a new document and import the previous Master Pages into the new one using Edit>Master Pages and using the "duplicate" and "import" tabs.  It was a little cumbersome, but I was able to do it.  Miraculously the pagination filled itself in correctly from the imports into the new document without me having to do anything, with either Insert or Document Setup.  It just appeared correctly out of the blue.

However there is a problem with the new document.  In any of the new document pages, none of the imported Master Pages text frames will activate.  They just remain mute black outlines.  I thought okay I will just go into Edit>Master Pages and make the imported black boxes text frames.  I clicked these boxes in the Master Pages and they highlighted as a text frames immediately.  They were already text frames and were imported as such, they just won't highlight as text frames in the new document.

I thought I would just lay new text frames right on top of the old ones in the Master Pages, but that doesn't seem right--text frames on top of )highlighted) text frames.  And would that even change things in the new document?  I could perhaps go into the new document and put text frames over the black outlined boxes, but that would be multiple text boxes on, in this case, 64 pages.

What now?

Thanks,

[utnik]

hi john

your description reads like a wild 'trial & error story' across document pages, master pages and the 'sections' manager. it is hard to see, what triggers your crashes.

i almost never use different sections. (i once needed them to set roman numerals in the first section and the standard arabic ones for the rest of the document. this may be my only experience with 'sections' in scribus...)
but i just tried (with scribus 1.5.7 – which is available for os 10.13 here) and couldn't find any problem with sections and pagination.
in the 'sections' dialog, you define the style of the page numbers, which sections show them and where they start in each section. but you place the page numbers on the master pages. (or on the actual document pages, if you like...)
as my documents usually don't need different pagination systems, i just apply master pages with page numbers where needed and others without them where i don't want them...

the cross for text overflow should disappear when you enlarge the frame a bit.

but all this seems to be solved in your new file...

...In any of the new document pages, none of the imported Master Pages text frames will activate.  They just remain mute black outlines.  I thought okay I will just go into Edit>Master Pages and make the imported black boxes text frames.  I clicked these boxes in the Master Pages and they highlighted as a text frames immediately.  They were already text frames and were imported as such, they just won't highlight as text frames in the new document.

you still try to edit master page objects on document pages – this will never work!
a text frame on a master page will show the same content on all the document pages where the master page is applied. you need to put text frames on your document pages. i often use the 'automatic text frames' function when i create the new document.

utnik

[JohnJR]

Hi Utnik,

Thanks for getting back.  First of all I was able to download 1.5.7 easily, which is something I couldn't do with 1.5.6 earlier, and my documents seemed to open the same there.  I did notice one thing in 1.5.7 with text frames, either in the Master Pages or in the documents.  The Properties dialog showed only the location and size of the text frame, but further dialog boxes underneath that were not the full menu but were limited to about four choices: line, color, and some others, but "text" was not one of them.  In other words, I had no option to choose font, point size, or justification.  With the 1.5.2 I still have that in Properties, it seems missing in the newer one.

Back to setting automatic text frames in the initial New Document window, I found that any other text or image frames later setup inside the margin perimeter on Master Pages when Applied to the document would not select and the only text frame available was the auto/margin frame no matter where or how precisely I clicked on one of the nested text frames.

I must be still misunderstanding Master Pages.  My conception of them is that repeated pages within a document that repeat many features, in my case a variety of text or image frame sizes and placements, are best constructed or Converted to a Master Page and then that Master Page can be Applied wherever needed without reconstructing that page from scratch.  But if the Master Page text frames won't activate when applied in the document (mute black lines) in the document and I need to rebuild them therein, what is the function of Master Pages?

Thanks,

[utnik]

hi john

I did notice one thing in 1.5.7 ...

...The Properties dialog showed only the location and size of the text frame, but further dialog boxes underneath that were not the full menu but were limited to about four choices: line, color, and some others, but "text" was not one of them.

yes, in more recent scribus versions there are two separate palettes for object properties (f2) and content properties (f3).

Back to setting automatic text frames in the initial New Document window, I found that any other text or image frames later setup inside the margin perimeter on Master Pages when Applied to the document would not select and the only text frame available was the auto/margin frame no matter where or how precisely I clicked on one of the nested text frames.

the content of the master pages is not editable outside of the master page!

I must be still misunderstanding Master Pages.  My conception of them is that repeated pages within a document that repeat many features, in my case a variety of text or image frame sizes and placements, are best constructed or Converted to a Master Page and then that Master Page can be Applied wherever needed without reconstructing that page from scratch.

take a look at this!
for your different text or image frames you might use the scrapbook or just some guides on your master pages as an aid to place your content exactly where you need it...

utnik