Scribusoid

Author Topic: Logic of Master Pages  (Read 5394 times)

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Logic of Master Pages
« on: March 26, 2012, 05:30:04 am »
Don't know whether these are bugs or not...I can create and apply 1 master page successfully.
But when I duplicate that Master Page to create a variation, only one of the master pages retains the type I have at the top.

Applying the master pages also seems not to work..things "disappear" in the sense that I see them in the palettes, but not in actuation.

should I make the master pages separately? and NOT by duplicating one to get another? I seem to be doing what the help file says, yet there are some issues and pitfalls here..

thanks for any help!

dcat
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 05:47:45 am »
It feels there are severe bugs in the Master pages functionality. I can create them, but they cause various breakages...

Either type styles take on attributes which I didin't give them, or text boxes become...perhaps duplicate or blocked by others.

can anyone confirm this?

dcat
writer, artist

Nermander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1296
  • Karma: 17
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 08:18:29 am »
It seems as if you misunderstand the purpose of Master Pages: They are to be seen as a background for the page.

Styles are defined separately and are global to the document.

Meho R.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
  • Karma: 0
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 03:40:36 pm »
I didn't encounter any issues with master pages so far. In the attachment you'll find a simple example of double-sided document using different master pages for odd and even pages. Try using this example to create another one which shows the issues you have with master pages and attach it to your next post.

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 07:36:23 pm »
It seems as if you misunderstand the purpose of Master Pages: They are to be seen as a background for the page.

Styles are defined separately and are global to the document.

Nermander..that part I actually do get, thanks to clarification from another member here..

A Master Page can contain text, no?  Text you want on every page? And which won't change? Isn't that a legal Master Page element?

Assuming it is, I included some text on a Master Page...text which has a style. Once on a master page, that styled text suddenly had a underline on its first paragraph. That text's own style sheet contains no underline.

I am also noticing other problems, like duplicating a master page...the header text disappears on the copy, but I see a text box with an X in the lower right corner...if there's something else there, I can't seem to separate the two. Looks like a weird text wrap issue, which ought not be occurring.

I am *very* experienced with Master pages in other well-known layout applications. I am admittedly new to Scribus' implementation of Master Pages. I readily accept Scribus' model of Master Pages as "background images" yet there are some logics to Master Pages which ought to carry through, based on what others are saying.

Just trying to tease out what is my mistake from what might be a Scribus quirk.

Thank you!

dcat
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 07:39:34 pm »
I didn't encounter any issues with master pages so far. In the attachment you'll find a simple example of double-sided document using different master pages for odd and even pages. Try using this example to create another one which shows the issues you have with master pages and attach it to your next post.

Meho...thank you for the attachment you posted...I'm prioritizing my Scribus work today; using it to create a PDF portfolio of my work, so I'll likely be able to post something if I see weird things based on using your example method.

Right now I'm leaning 80% toward "greenhorn mistake" on my part, but  we shall see.

Thank you for your generous help!

dcat
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 09:27:22 pm »
OK..it just did it again.

I created Master Pages from pages that were not masters. Heading at the top of the page is live type which I change on the master.

Initially, the heading is there.

I just went back in to check on those masters, and on two of them, the header is not visible, tho I do see a box with an X in its lower right hand corner.

To me, this makes no sense. It was there a few minutes ago, now it's either gone, or being "pressed on" by something else, but nothing was added TO the master page after creating it.

Can anyone please confirm this behavior and suggest a fix or a solution to it?


thank you!

dcat
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 09:31:09 pm »
I'm almost 100% sure we have a bug here.


Just made the text box of the "hidden" heading on the top level/layer (Item Level Raise to Top) and the heading appears. Go to another master page with hidden header. make IT Raise to Top. Header appears.

Go back to the first page, and the header is again not visible!!!

To me this is a clear case of wrong behavior/bug. Any confirmation of this?

If there is no explanation or fix of this, Master Pages are an impractical function at this time, at least for me.

Thank you for input on this!

dcat
writer, artist

a.l.e

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Karma: 26
    • the graphics lab
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2012, 10:10:16 pm »
dcat the last thing you described looks like a bug... but i think that we need a sample (a .sla) and exact steps to reproduce to judge...

ciao
a.l.e

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2012, 10:13:01 pm »
dcat the last thing you described looks like a bug... but i think that we need a sample (a .sla) and exact steps to reproduce to judge...

ciao
a.l.e

I'd be happy to supply an example with the steps. Let me get this portfolio off my desk, then I can do that.

thank you!

dcat
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 10:14:07 pm »
and until I can do that, here's another observation:

If I drag the disappearing headers to some other part of the document, they become visible and STAY visible.

Not a fix but perhaps a clue?
writer, artist

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 01:49:32 am »
dcat the last thing you described looks like a bug... but i think that we need a sample (a .sla) and exact steps to reproduce to judge...

OK..I'm attaching 2 files for the interested to try to reproduce my bug. One is the "start" file: no master pages. The other is with master pages and the problem I'm seeing.

Steps to produce the Bug:

1. Begin with a document with some content and one non-master page.  graphic and type. My type is in the top left corner. My background is a regular gray made in Scribus.

2. Either duplicate the start page, or type some variation of the Type. In my example, I start with the type saying Category. My variations are Category One, Category Two, etc.

3. After each type variation, Choose: Page > Convert to Master Page...   when presented with a naming box, name the master page something to differentiate from the other.

4. Rinse and repeat for a couple variations.

5. Open Edit Master Pages palette. Click once on one of the master pages, then on others. If you precipiated the bug, one or more of the master pages' type which you varied will not be visible. You will instead see what I believe is an Overflow X where the bottom right corner of the text's box is.

6. Exit Master page palette. Insert new blank page, and begin applying the Master Pages you created to that new blank page. One or more should produce a page with the type not visible, but with the little X visible where that  text's bottom right corner is.

For extra fun, see whether moving the type boxes on each master makes that text visible. Put it back where it was, it disappears.

Also, on the masters where the text is not visible, move that item to the top layer. Becomes visible. Go to another Master, then back. The text you just made visible is again not visible.


Thanks for proving/disproving this bug.

dcat
writer, artist

a.l.e

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Karma: 26
    • the graphics lab
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 02:38:02 pm »
i was really wondering a bit while trying to find the rationals behind the "disappearing" text.

first: the text was not disappearing, but it was overflowing the text frame. the crossed box in the lower right corner of the frame shows you that fact.

by resizing the frame you see the "missing" text.

after several tries, i've probably found the issue :-) your are marking the text as "flow around" and, somehow scribus is thinking that the new master page is below the older one and flows the text in the first master page around the frame in the second one.

can you please post this as a bug in http://bugs.scribus.net?
(please upload your "start" .sla as a base to test the bug)

for your current document, all you have to do is disable the flowing around (since you don't use it...)

ciao
a.l.e

a.l.e

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Karma: 26
    • the graphics lab
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 02:43:27 pm »
p.s.: you probably have too many layers in your document...

dezcat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 0
  • Scribus User
Re: Logic of Master Pages
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 05:45:01 pm »
Why then does the text not over flow on my non-master pages? I do not see the cause of this overflow on the Master page...also, why did "move to top layer" work, but only until I left that master page to view another?

also, "too many layers?"

Does Scribus have a limit, and if so, what is it?

thank you!

dcat
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 05:50:20 pm by dezcat »
writer, artist