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Author Topic: Diacritic & line height  (Read 2628 times)

SirPL

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Diacritic & line height
« on: June 29, 2016, 09:44:53 am »
Hi everyone.
I am a freshman to Scribus, so I apologize if my question is just stupid. I also tried to find similar question on the forum, but no luck.

I am working on a bilangual booklet, so left page is always english and right page - polish. I want to have each text line on both pages at the same height. But there's a problem since polish language has some letters with acute, and in this case Scibus is moving text line a bit down to fit the mark inside the box. In InDesign the problem is not present since the accents can leave the textbox (see attachements for comparison).

How can I deal with it? Is there any option to allow accent marks be outside the textboxes?

Best

GarryP

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 11:12:44 am »
Welcome to the forum (and Scribus) SirPL.

You need to look at using the baseline grid.

This article: https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Baseline_Grid_Explained should explain what you need to know to get started.

Nermander

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 05:32:32 pm »
Wouldn't this also be solved by using a fixed line spacing? Surely Scribus won't change a fixed line spacing based on the text height?

SirPL

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 07:28:19 pm »
That's more or less what I was looking for.

I find InDesign way of handling it a bit more flexible since It's hard to align the baseline with top margin of the page (or maybe it's easy but I don't know how to calculate the baseline shift in grid settings). Another problem is that if I lower size of the text, the gap between lines is always equal... and If I increase the size, the space can be really huge. A bit annoying.



Sorry for offtopic; quick question: is it possible to apply paragraph/character style to a key shortcut?

GarryP

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 11:41:49 am »
I don't think fixed line spacing will make any difference to the original problem since the spacing is calculated from the bottom of the first line of text which, because of the accent, will move. This can easily be checked by putting some sample text in a frame, then adding a first line consisting of a lower-case letter then adding an upper-case letter. Adding the upper-case letter causes the lower lines to drop down since it's higher than the lower-case letter causing the bottom of the line to drop.

SirPL, I'm just wondering: Why are you trying to align the baseline grid with the margin? Generally, the baseline grid should go where you want the text to go and shouldn't really have much to do with the margins. You might be trying to do something that you don't need to do.

It makes sense that, if the size of the baseline grid stays the same and you change the size of the text then, the visible gap between the lines of text will change. Just change the size of the baseline grid spacing to suit the new size of the text.

(Off Topic) Sorry, I don't think it's possible to assign a style to a shortcut key.

SirPL

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 07:30:02 pm »
Why are you trying to align the baseline grid with the margin?
To make sure that the page is filled with text in most optimal way.

Just change the size of the baseline grid spacing to suit the new size of the text.
Yes, that would be fine if grid space would be set per style, but as far as I understand, is set per document. I am going to write some text with 8pt font and some with 13pt. The gap between  lines of smaller text won't look professionaly.

Nermander

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 08:36:32 pm »
I don't think fixed line spacing will make any difference to the original problem since the spacing is calculated from the bottom of the first line of text which, because of the accent, will move.

I though the "dynamic first line location" was an old bug that has been fixed? (Logically the first line offset from the frame top should be the same as the line spacing, and if the line spacing is fixed the location of the first line's base should be fixed.)

GarryP

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 11:21:15 am »
SirPL: The margins are really just guides to give you space around the main body of text. They're only there - as specified by the user - to help you to align things. You don't need to use them if you don't want to. Try thinking about your layout without strictly adhering to the margins. In other words, put the text where it looks right rather than where the margins seem to tell you where to put it.

As there's only one baseline grid per document I can see how that might be a problem for you if you're using two different font sizes (or indeed fonts, as each font has its own x-height). The point of the baseline grid is to give you a consistent line spacing across the whole document since most documents have the majority of the body text at the same size. (Having multiple baseline grids - for most purposes - wouldn't make much sense in most cases and could get very messy.) You should probably use the baseline grid for the text that is most prevalent and use either fixed or automatic line spacing for the rest (however, see below).

Nermander: I didn't realise that this was a bug. I thought it was just how Scribus worked and didn't think about it too much. I totally agree with your reasoning; when using fixed line spacing the bottom of the first line should be fixed at the spacing distance set by the user and not dependant on what text is on it. "Fixed" line spacing implies that the line spacing should be constant throughout the frame. If this was fixed then SirPL's problem could be easily resolved.

A quick look at the bug tracker shows this from 2006: https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=3550 (and I'm sure there will be more). Ten years later it doesn't seem to be a high priority for the developers.

GarryP

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Re: Diacritic & line height
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 11:50:09 am »
NOTE: The original problem posted can be overcome by going to the "First Line Offset" tab within the "Text" tab of the Properties Palette. Just select the option you require (tooltips will tell you what each one does).

This fix was first posted here: http://forums.scribus.net/index.php/topic,2143.0.html (where you can find other similar discussions, if you're interested).