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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: mnawij on April 27, 2016, 01:00:38 am

Title: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on April 27, 2016, 01:00:38 am
Hi there friends,

Is there a way to get the page size smaller than 1"?  It has been frustrating me for several weeks now.  I create probably 1-2 self-inking stamps every week and there are several sizes smaller than 1".  I might just be overlooking something in the preferences or not using the correct phrase for google, who knows, but I would appreciate some help :-)

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: solaero on April 27, 2016, 02:25:57 am
Maybe use millimeters? I was able to create a 15mm square page just now. I didn't attempt to do anything to it, just created it and closed it. What sort of error/problem are you encountering?
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on April 27, 2016, 02:42:02 pm
mnawij, I've just created a page - using inches as the unit type - of 0.5x0.5 inches from the "New Document" dialog, so that seems to work fine.

Changing the size of the page from A4 (pts) to 0.5x0.5 inches - using "Document Setup" works just fine too.

If you can give some more information about your set-up and work-flow then someone might be able to help more but it looks okay to me.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: Nermander on April 27, 2016, 03:22:08 pm
Could it just be an issue of decimal comma or point?
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on April 28, 2016, 07:34:49 am
New Document Dialog Box, I type .5" hit the tab key to put in .5" in the next box and the first box changes to 1" and then when I hit the tab key again the second box changes to 1". I have a video but unsure how to share it...

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on April 28, 2016, 10:46:21 am
Weird.

I've tried to replicate the problem but nothing I do makes it happen.

Typing '.5"' (without the outside quotes) as you have said just makes Scribus revert back to what was in the field originally - the " quote character isn't recognised as a digit and Scribus ignores the input.

Typing '.5' (again, without the outside quotes) sets the field correctly to 0.5000 inches (when inches are the unit type that is set).

Typing '0,5' gives a value of 5 - Scribus ignores the '0,' portion of the input.

Typing some random letters reverts the value back to what it was before (that was just to see what happened).

I just can't get it to do what it's doing for you.

If you can give your OS version and Scribus version (best to copy the info from the About Scribus dialog) then we might be able to look at what's happening.

If your video is smaller than 2MB then you can put it in a ZIP and attach the ZIP to a post. Otherwise, a link to DropBox/Google Drive/whatever might be a good choice.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on April 28, 2016, 12:51:54 pm
the default for inches is "in" not """ :-)

so, just type .5 in if your not using inches as a default unit...

i don't know if it would be a good idea to accept " as a shortcut for inches...
i guess our time would be better spent in getting the last few gallic villages to adopt the metric system... :-)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on April 28, 2016, 02:28:13 pm
I think you'd have to add most of the USofA to that list of villages too.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: utnik on April 28, 2016, 07:08:10 pm
hi garry
I think you'd have to add most of the USofA to that list of villages too.

this was an asterix joke – works for 'gallic villages' in the US too…

utnik
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on April 29, 2016, 01:44:29 am
I put the " for understanding, I do not type that in the actual box...

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: solaero on April 29, 2016, 02:41:15 am
Hmm . . . still can't reproduce. Using version 1.5.0 on a Mac here.

[edit] Just tried it on the nightly build from 23 APR 2016 and the error occurs as described. I cannot get the Width or Height boxes to accept anything smaller than 1.0000

mnawij: it would be extremely helpful to know with which version you are having the trouble.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on April 29, 2016, 06:19:58 am
OS X 10.9
Scribus 1.4.6

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: utnik on April 29, 2016, 10:16:31 am
i can't reproduce the problem under macOS 10.11.4.
i just tested with scribus 1.4.6, 1.5.1 and the nightly builds of 1.5.2 from april 20 and 23 – everything works as expected.


utnik


Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: solaero on April 29, 2016, 03:12:38 pm
I should've made a quick video of this last night. Can't seem to reproduce it right now using inches. Will record it if I see it again.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on April 30, 2016, 12:00:45 am
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B79CJGGgFvRNaEFfcW0tUXlZdEU/view?usp=sharing

Let's see if this link works... watch and see what I am seeing...

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on May 04, 2016, 03:48:54 am
Anyone get a chance to view my video of the problem? (see previous post)

mnawij
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: solaero on May 04, 2016, 05:59:51 am
Saw it. Haven't been able to view on a larger screen however. That is the same behavior I have seen, just not in a way I could reproduce :-(
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on May 04, 2016, 11:01:01 am
ok, i can reproduce: it happens when you type a size < 1 in the default unit.

can you please add a ticket to the bug tracker?

https://bugs.scribus.net

ciao
a.l.e

(in 1.5.1)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on May 04, 2016, 11:27:51 am
a.l.e, I've just set the default units to inches and it's allowed me to set the sizes smaller than an inch - see attached images - so I don't think that's the problem here.

I don't know what the problem is exactly as I've not been able to replicate it, no matter how many different ways I've tried to, but I don't think that's it.

(BTW: I'm using Scribus Version 1.4.6, 03 January 2016, Build ID: C-*-T-*-C1.8.6-Windows-64bit, Using Ghostscript version 9.18)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on May 04, 2016, 11:52:41 am
i can replicate in both 1.4.x and 1.5x (as released for mac).
i cannot type .5 in the default unit, but i can other units (the default being pt in 1.4.x and mm in 1.5.x)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on May 04, 2016, 12:29:55 pm
Ah ha... I think I've found the problem.

If your default units are set to inches in Preferences, and you try and create a new document with dimensions of less than a single unit, Scribus will force them back to a single unit.

However, if your Preferences default units is set to something smaller (pts for example), and you create a new document - after setting the default units to inches in the New Document dialog - you can then set dimensions that are less than a single unit.

It looks like it's the default units setting in Preferences that is forcing the change, not the default units in the New Document dialog.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on May 04, 2016, 12:52:14 pm
exactly!
my explanation was a bit too short :-)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on May 04, 2016, 02:31:09 pm
So, a quick fix for mnawij would be to change the Preferences default units to points and then set the document units to inches. Not a real fix but it works.

I'll let other people argue whether Scribus should allow document dimensions of less than one unit in size and how that would affect what the user can type in those fields depending on what UOM is checked against.

Just as an aside: I think the "Default Unit" field in "New Document / Options" is badly named.

The "default" part is misleading as there's no "default" to it, it's just the current unit of measure for the document. There's nothing to "default" to as the user always uses what it is currently set to (except for text which is handled differently). I think it should be renamed to "Unit of Measure", or "Document Units", or just "Units". That way there would be less confusion.
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on May 04, 2016, 03:15:36 pm
mmm... about default or not:

you can type anything in a field and -- as long as scribus can recognize it -- it will be converted.

so you can choose inches as the default unit for the document and then type 12 cm in the width of a frame.

or, a more realistic case: you can choose mm as the default unit and then type 12 cm in the width... you'll get 120 mm.

so it's the default for the document you are creating (which is a similar thing as the document settings and the scribus preferences...).

personally, i'm not sure if we need to have the drop down at all.
one can type the unit she wishes if for a specific document she wants a different unit than what she has set in the preferences.
and she can always switch the current default unit on the right side of the status bar.

who dares to propose removing it? :-)

ps.: by removing little or never used option we make it easier for the user, to spot the important settings... of course...
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: GarryP on May 04, 2016, 03:38:14 pm
I understand what you're saying about being able to specify a different UOM in a field and it makes sense to allow it but I would call that "overriding" the current UOM.

It's mainly a matter of semantics though; you call it one thing and I call it another, they both have the same effect.

My purpose for proposing a different name was to divorce the preferences default units from the document default units. Having two things named the same but with different uses - one is a general setting for new documents and the other is the setting for the current document - can be confusing.

I'd say this was probably a discussion that has no real ending though - just going round in circles - so I'm happy to drop it if you are.

I'd much prefer to see the drop-down in the dialog than having the user type in a different UOM. It's way easier for beginners to know what's going on. How would they know what to type in? 'in' vs. 'inches' vs. 'ins', etc. (Also, the average beginner won't have used Preferences much, if at all.)
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: a.l.e on May 04, 2016, 08:44:30 pm
the other way round: the absolute beginner should get the correct default and won't ever want to use a different unit than what is common in her place.

being able to set a different unit is something for advanced users...

anyway, as you said, not much use discussing this and the team is happy to add things, removing them is much harder...
Title: Re: minimum page/document size?
Post by: mnawij on May 07, 2016, 06:31:53 am
Thank you all for your assistance.

mnawij