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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: dante nirvana on April 10, 2025, 02:49:43 PM

Title: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: dante nirvana on April 10, 2025, 02:49:43 PM
I'm not exactly a "beginner" with Scribus since I'm using it since version 1.5.x, but now I'm working on a very big text with many words I rather not hyphenate.

So i ask this: is there any better way of inputting a "Ignore List" than doing it word by word?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 10, 2025, 07:04:31 PM
i dit not try it out, but it should be:

"file > document setup > hyphenator > word lists > ignore list"
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: dante nirvana on April 10, 2025, 08:18:43 PM
Yes, that should work as i said, by linking an actual list (a .cvs or whatever format). Instead you need to input only one word then another and so on. Even the documentation indicates it will work like this: inputting word by word (here: https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Help:Manual_Hyphenation (https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Help:Manual_Hyphenation))

It's not like something you can simply solve updating dictionaries also. In my case (a fantasy book), of course. But if there is a better way of doing it, I'm all ears (or eyes  :D ). If there isn't, well, how can someone asks for it to be a thing in a future update?

Because I think that this feature would be very useful. I mean, it would be much easier than looking the whole text, page by page, text box for text box, for, maybe, hundreds of pages. Now, I know I might be exaggerating, but imagine a, let's say, a thousand pages, where you need to look for, maybe 20 words that you rather not hyphenate. These 20 words may appear upper case, lower, or capital first letter. It makes 60 words to be inputted word by word. It makes much more sense if you can simply link a file containing those words.

Also, I don't know how to post/link images here so I can show what I mean by "inputting word by word", but I'm sure anyone can test it by going File > Document Setup > Hyphenator then clicking Word List and then the " + " sign in "Ignore List".
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 10, 2025, 09:54:32 PM
I guess that the simplest change would be to change the input field in the "+" dialog in a text area and allow one entry per line.

Would that fit your needs?
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: dante nirvana on April 11, 2025, 03:25:20 PM
Short answer is: Yes, it fits. If you — or anyone, for that matter — can do this, THANKS! It would be great. I'm really grateful.

Not so short answer:
I think it's a great upgrade, yes, it helps a lot since inputting word by word is very inadequate. Hope I'm not sounding like demanding anything.

Still I think that allowing the user to link a file, just like you can link a text file with a text box — so the user can alter the linked file in the source instead of having to adding, editing or deleting while working with Scribus.

I guess there isn't much requests regarding the hyphenator, and therefore changing anything because of one random Joe while there is tons of work to do with more urgent and more requested fixes and features is just nonsense, but I'm hoping that raising the issue may make developers see that it can be improved.

Now, I love Scribus. Period. It's free (not paid and open source). And in my current situation I cannot help development, only ask for features or raise issues. So anything anyone do for what I ask/raise is just great, nonetheless I still think, like I've said, link should be available. It might be a third column or a simple button saying "Link a List", doesn't really matter how as long as it's there to use.

Again, I'm not complaining (even if this much of words suggest otherwise :D). I'm simply giving an idea. And since I'm already here, it would be great if "Hyphenate/Dehyphenate" accessible by right clicking on text :D.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 12, 2025, 11:34:58 AM
Short answer: Then I will give a try and make a patch for the simple solution.

Longer answer: I would not do bigger changes, without first having a good concept, about how the hyphenator should evolve.
There are other more general changes to Scribus to be taken in account.

The idea of using an external list is a good one.
There are multiple other resources (styles, colors, content of text frames, vector frames, ...) that should optionally be external to the Scribus document or preferences.
I guess we need to track them somewhere and slowly work towards a concept on how to enable that.

There are other features that should be added:


Practical answer:

I've made a patch to allow:

- multiple selection in both lists (for deleting)
- adding multiple items at once (and copy paste them from a text file)
- editing in place by double clicking on the item in the list

hyphenation.gif

It's here: https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=17497

Finally, about adding a context menu for hyphenating.

In the current state of the context menu, I don't think it's a good idea.
Before adding new things, we first need to think what should really be in there.
In my dreams, the context menu would not contain (almost) any sub folders and only contain things that it makes sense to trigger with the mouse (indeed, (de)hyphenating the current selection might be something that could be triggered with the mouse...)

For the time being, there is already a fast way to trigger the (de)hyphenation:
Start the "Action search" with ctrl+/, type "hy" (and press once the arrow down key).
... If you don't like "Alt-x h"...
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: Nermander on April 12, 2025, 01:34:33 PM
I am wondering if this could not be solved by a custom hyphenation dictionary?

I took a look at them but I have no idea how they work, the format looked very weird :)

Ok, some googling shows words have numbers in the hyphenation positions, with the value indicating a "weight" for the hypnenation position.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 12, 2025, 05:09:46 PM
interesting!
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: dante nirvana on April 13, 2025, 03:22:33 AM
Firs of all: thanks, you are now my official new hero!  ;D

Then: when will this be in the current stable version?

And also: about the context menu, I think there's 2 ways of approaching this issue:

1 - GIMP and XFCE desktop: just throw every possible option on the menu and tool bar. Obviously it'll not be as you wish, it would contain multiple sub folders.

2 - Something like Krita does, except I can't imagine what it would hold into it. Perhaps having a standard set of things and letting the user personalize his own context menu, where each section corresponds to a menu of the menu bar.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: dante nirvana on April 13, 2025, 03:32:30 AM
I liked my last idea and don't know if it was understandable, so I've done a basic mockup with inkscape. Hope that now is clear.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 13, 2025, 08:55:49 PM
Last week, I've opened a ticket concerning the context menu:

https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=17489

As you see there, I like the context menu in Inkscape.

Your proposal above seems a bit busy to me. But, at the end, it all depends on what is the goal of the context menu in Scribus.

Personally, I'm for first finding a clear concept behind the different ways to trigger actions in Scribus:


Currently:

Sadly, if I look at your proposal, I would say that only the first few entries in the Edit section seem to me to be a good fit for the context menu on a text frame (and they only deserve to be there, because they are always there, not because they are really necessary...).
Concerning the hyphenation, probably, (de)hyphenate text should not be there, but adding the current selection to the hyphenation exceptions or ignores, that might be there!
We will see what the concept for the context sensitive toolbar will be, but I could image that the (de)hyphenation could be a good fit there (on top of being triggered in the menus and in the action search).

But, again, without a clear concept on what belongs where, the thoughts above are only my personal impression and not something that would be good for Scribus.

Voilà, I will try to copy parts of this discussion into the ticket in the bug tracker...
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: AdmFubar on April 14, 2025, 12:35:13 AM
One thing i'd like to see,  bit more space above and below the "Delete" menu entry, or an option to remove them. I find it is often too easy to accidentally shift your hand on the mouse a bit and you are about to click the desired entry and wind up deleting something you didn't want to.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 14, 2025, 06:33:39 PM
The question is: is a "Delete" entry in the context menu useful?

What is the context, when you are using it?
... Even "Edit > Delete" seems faster to trigger...

I won't speak about "Del", "Backspace" and ctrl-x.
Title: Re: Is there any way i can input an "Ignore List" in hyphenator?
Post by: a.l.e on April 17, 2025, 08:51:52 AM
the patch is now in 1.7!

with a bit of care, users of 1.6 can:

- make a backup of the 1.6 document
- open the 1.6 document with 1.7 (as an example with the nightly appimage)
- add the exceptions and ignores
- save the file as 1.6
- continue their work in 1.6

just make sure that you first make a backup so that it something bad happens, you can go back to your old file.