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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 10:32:34 am

Title: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 10:32:34 am
My document looks like this on Scribus:

                                                  PAGE 1
                            PAGE 2           PAGE 3
                            PAGE 4           .......

But on PDF it looks like this:

                            PAGE 1          PAGE 2
                            PAGE 3          PAGE 4
                            PAGE 5           .......

What am I doing wrong?

Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: utnik on July 01, 2020, 02:00:07 pm
What am I doing wrong?

i suspect reader settings.

utnik
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 02:07:17 pm
Hi Utnik,

What are 'reader settings' and where are they?

Thnkx
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 02:38:12 pm
Utnik,

If you mean Adobe Reader settings, have tried all the settings and they do not change a thing.

The pages of the document are coloured for children and the pdf needs to preserve the way the document looks with Scribus. For example,

                                                                                Page1 is navy
                                              Page2 is green          Page3 is green
                                              Page4 is orange        Page5 is orange
                                              Page6 is cyan            Page7 is cyan
                                              Page8 is orange        Page9 is orange
                                              etc etc

Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 06:05:17 pm
I can fix the problem by using PDF Writer and adding a new page before the first page of the exported pdf document. But, that's not the issue. Either I and other people who have posted about this phenomenon are missing something about Scribus to pdf export settings or there is a bug somewhere. Either way, it would be nice to get help!
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: utnik on July 01, 2020, 06:52:41 pm
when i export a .pdf with 'facing page right' checked in the 'viewer' tab of the export window, at least my copy of adobe reader shows the file starting with a single page and then in double pages.
but some readers may overwrite the settings of the file. (even adobe reader might be set up to overwrite them – i didn't try…)

utnik
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 01, 2020, 08:23:42 pm
I don't have the option 'facing page right' with Scribus 1.4.8.
There are:
single
continuous
double page left
double page right

I tried a dozen times for a draft (not final copy unfortunately): I do not know why but one of them came out correctly as 'facing page right' and the reader does not change it on two computers. Why? Does it make a difference which pdf version option is chosen perhaps?
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: utnik on July 02, 2020, 01:10:39 am
'double page right' with scribus 1.4.8 works for me.
if it doesn't for you, i would check the settings in your .pdf reader.

utnik
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 05, 2020, 11:37:12 am
The solution that worked for us for the recent stable version of Scribus: we asked how to somehow bypass pdf reader settings?

(Utnik, you are using the developer version, so it may not be a problem for you; but I've read posts where people have had this issue with exporting.)

This question seemed to be the reasonable step to take, since our trial exports showed to us conclusively that how the resulting pdf turns out is independent of the pdf viewer settings.

So, this is what we did:
Go to the Export window. Change the Compatibility options in the General tab to PDF 1.4 (Acrobat5).
Then head to the Viewer tab. Change Document Layout options to Double Page Right (or Facing Page Right, if you are using the Developer version of Scribus).
Then change the Visual Appearance options (same tab) to Use Full Screen Mode. This last step is to ensure that the pdf viewer will be forced not to override our settings.
And it worked!
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: xenon on July 07, 2020, 06:28:37 am
Hi TeamTTL,

Don't know if I'm missing the point here, but in Adobe Reader, if you go to "View" -> "Page Display", there should be an option to "Show cover page in Two Page View". I think that is, what other people referred to as "reader settings".

Forcing EVERY pdf reader to display the pdf this way from the beginning is not the job of a software with pdf export, as far as I'm aware.
Still, if your solution is working, I'm happy for you.

Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 07, 2020, 08:15:40 pm
You may be missing the point, but that's ok because anyone who has had this problem will know.

To repeat my previous post, what happens is that your Scribus 1.4.8 designed document pages look like this:

                                                  PAGE 1
                            PAGE 2           PAGE 3
                            PAGE 4           .......

But after exporting to PDF, the document looks like this:

                            PAGE 1          PAGE 2
                            PAGE 3          PAGE 4
                            PAGE 5           .......
       
This outcome is especially annoying when the pages are colour coordinated. And, it won't matter whether you choose 'single' or 'double' page view for pdf viewer - your document will not start with a single page and continue with double pages, as was in Scribus 1.4.8!

Did you follow my instructions and test what happens? No?

What happens if you follow my instructions is this: the document layout is preserved. And the PDF Viewer prompts your PC to ask whether you want to switch to FULL Page View. You just say "No" and then proceed as normal.

PS You may not be experiencing this issue we've had, if you are using version 1.5.5 like Utnik. And, I hope this is helpful for anyone who's had this problem - if you haven't, that's great, too. But, if it's a bug, hope someone checks that its' fixed - rather than dismissing it.



Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: xenon on July 07, 2020, 09:48:07 pm
Hi again,

as I was having a similar page setup (displaying a map on pages 2&3), I actually did follow your instructions.
For me, it came down to being prompted when opening the PDF vs. choosing the setting in Acrobat Reader.
I, personally, prefer setting the given option in the reader, which is why I offered it as a possible solution, being ignorant about the fact, that apparently this does not work in your case.

You probably put a lot more time and effort into the solution of this than me and by following your settings I was able to get more knowledge about exporting pdfs, so I'm thankful for that.

Bye,
xe
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: a.l.e on July 08, 2020, 02:33:00 pm
hi teamttl

for what i know this is a limitation in the pdf viewers and/or the pdf standard.
and there is not much that scribus can do.

if you have evidence that it's not the case, please provide us with a reference to the pdf standard where it says which setting needs to be set by scribus to let the viewers show the pdf in the way you expect.
the pdf standard is available online for download:

https://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdf_reference.html

have a wonderful day
a.l.e
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: Nermander on July 08, 2020, 10:38:59 pm
But after exporting to PDF, the document looks like this:

                            PAGE 1          PAGE 2
                            PAGE 3          PAGE 4
                            PAGE 5           .......

No.

The PDF actually looks like this:
PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4
PAGE 5
....

How those pages are displayed are up to the PDF viewer.

The PDF can suggest a way to display it, but user settings in the PDF viewer can almost always override this (because that is kind of the point with having those settings in the PDF viewer).
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 11, 2020, 11:51:45 am
Thank you for your message!

The answer is: Yes and No and Yes!

Our exported document in pdf format looked like this in SINGLE PAGE VIEW of the adobe settings:
PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4
PAGE 5
....

But in the DOUBLE PAGE VIEW of the adobe settings, the same pdf document looked like this:
                            PAGE 1          PAGE 2
                            PAGE 3          PAGE 4
                            PAGE 5           .......

We wanted it to look like this in DOUBLE PAGE VIEW of the adobe settings:
                                                  PAGE 1
                            PAGE 2           PAGE 3
                            PAGE 4           .......

PS. Don't know the cause, have kept the several copies of exported pdf which did it. But thankfully the current export looks fine and it is here now:
 
https://talktogetherlondon.org/products/skoorys-careers-workbook-1

In sum: Scribus is a great resource when one gets the hang of it as it were. When it doesn't seem to function as it is supposed to though, may be nerve-racking for non-programmer folk. (Downloaded version 1.5.5 and it changed how the paragraph styles were displayed with version 1.4.8 for example - which meant we couldn't use it for a document formatted with 1.4.8: again, we don't know why etc etc.)

Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: a.l.e on July 11, 2020, 02:40:24 pm
hi teamttl

> version 1.5.5 and it changed how the paragraph styles were displayed with version 1.4.8

whaaat?
i don't think there is such  change in scribus.

the problem with the non programmer folks is that when they have an issue they always think the mean programmers sneaked something in to make their life worse.
or they think that programmers are a special folks with incredible intelligence. spoiler: they are not.

you have been told a few times now, that what experience is probably a limitation in the pdf file format and in the pdf viewers.
there is probably little that scribus can do for you.
what you are describing as solutions are hacks that will probably make life miserable for most of the readers of your pdfs (why should a pdf go full screen?)

but if you're really sure that scribus should be able to do that,  you were asked to a look at that 1000 pages thick document produced by adobe that says what pdf can do and what it can't (don't worry, you don't have to read it all. it has a table of contents!)
that's no programmers stuff. just a text specification on what a pdf can do. you don't even have to learn about the exact parameters. just find out in the text where it says that a given chapter talks about how to control the viewing layout. and give us the page / chapter to check and implement!

have a safe weekend!
a.l.e
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: TeamTTL on July 11, 2020, 03:23:38 pm
Rude and irrelevant:  says there is a "problem" with people who are not programmers and does not discuss the issues as if only purpose is to criticise Scribus users who are not programmers.

Your response sadly suggests that some folk, like yourself, claim to be "programmers" but probably do not use Scribus to write anything or to publish anything. Folk, like us, who are not programmers do - because they may not have a budget to pay for software on the market. And when they describe their experiences to get support, they receive responses like yours.

PS: Programming is about applying a logical language. If we had the time from teaching and working in the community, we’d learn to do programming. OK?
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: jghali on July 11, 2020, 04:49:21 pm
PDF format describes only individual page layout. The settings available in the Viewer tab of PDF export dialog provides indications to the PDF viewer how PDF viewer should layout the individual pages. However the viewer settings are just indications. If in my Acrobat DC display settings I specify I want PDF to be presented as single pages, it will be presented using single page layout no matter what. The layout of individual pages in PDF viewer is indeed the full PDF viewer responsibility. And as far as I can tell, the Facing page left/Facing page right settings works when using Acrobat DC as viewer.
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: a.l.e on July 11, 2020, 07:35:55 pm
dear teamttl

i do use scribus to publish.
not all the time but often enough.
and i happen to be a programmer.
i even have a plugin written by myself that nobody else uses.
(it will probably be in scribus as soon scribus "will be ready" for it)

so what?

now get ready for some digressions.

personally, i tend to see this sentence of yours

Quote
When it doesn't seem to function as it is supposed to though, may be nerve-racking for non-programmer folk.

as rude.
i see this as passive aggressive talk against programmers.

you're free to think it.
but it might not be the best attitude, when you're expecting some help from programmers (and the other people who make scribus without programming).

and, no, the world is not split into programmers and non programmers. it's you who has put yourself in the category of the non-programmers.

now, back to the main stuff. you've been told several times by multiple people (programmers and non programmers united) that you're wrong.
you got explanations on how the things do work.
i've even told you where to get the information to know if you're indeed wrong or we all are wrong.
but you don't seem to be much concerned by facts.

(intermezzo: a bit of logical thinking for you: we cannot prove you, that you're wrong, since we cannot demonstrate that something is not in the pdf specifications. but you can prove us wrong, if you find the thing we insist does not exist).

and still, you keep your bossy attitude and expect us to be thankful to you because you're poor enough to use scribus.
(oooops: "because they may not have a budget to pay for software on the market" is rather rude... if you did not notice)

please reconsider your attitude in this forum.

end of rant.

ciao & enjoy your weekend
a.l.e

p.s.: you might have missed the fact that PDF is not just some random computer thing but is an ISO standard  that has been originally created by Adobe some 30 years ago. you can freely download and read some of the versions. PDF creators (like scribus) and readers (like evince) cannot do what they want and expect it to work. thankfully.
and, no, the pdf standard is not code. it just happens to be as easy to digest as a phone book (for those people who still know what is a phone book...) but it's not code. it's non discriminatory and just as boring for those who can program and those who cannot.
p.p.s: https://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdf_reference.html
Title: Re: Scribus to pdf export
Post by: Nermander on July 11, 2020, 10:36:42 pm
But in the DOUBLE PAGE VIEW of the adobe settings, the same pdf document looked like this:

You may not be realising that you are giving the answer here yourself. The key is the word "view".

The PDF contains a sequence of pages, how those pages are displayed on the screen is governed by the PDF viewer.

The PDF can ask the PDF viewer to shown the pages in a certain way, but the viewer can always override this.