Scribus Forums

Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: Wena on September 07, 2011, 09:18:02 pm

Title: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 07, 2011, 09:18:02 pm
Where is the CMYK to be found in Scribus 1'4. I will need to set my photos to that.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: WalksIn2Trees on September 09, 2011, 01:48:49 am
Wena, the image's colors are determined by the image. 

you can check image colorspace with the EXTRAS>MANAGE IMAGES tool

to change color space, open your image in an image editor to convert the color space from RGB to CMYK.  If possible, you should be designing/scanning in CMYK from the start if you plan to have things printed commercially, because conversion is never as good as starting that way

Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on September 09, 2011, 02:17:33 am
hi walksin2trees

…you should be designing/scanning in CMYK from the start if you plan to have things printed commercially, because conversion is never as good as starting that way…

here you are wrong!!!
conversion from rgb to cmyk is not as bad as conversion between different cmyk-spaces – for this reason you should never work in cmyk as long as you don't have the final color profile.

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on September 09, 2011, 08:46:33 am
So the correct answer is: Get the color profile from the printer and tell Scribus to use it for export.

Googling "scribus cmyk export" gives this page as first hit:
http://blog.tsoots.fi/2009/02/preparing-document-for-printer-cmyk-pdf.html
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 19, 2011, 02:30:15 pm
BUT, BUT where to sat my artwork in CMYK, I just feel as if we are all going round the subject rather than answering my question.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on September 19, 2011, 03:36:51 pm
hello wena

first, you have to put the icc-profile indicated by your printer into the folder for color profiles.
scribus will search in ~/.color/icc and /usr/share/color and subdirectories for profiles.
after that you select the profile under 'file' → 'document setup' → 'color management' → 'document profiles' as default for cmyk images and cmyk solid colors. (this is for your ubuntu computer with the 1.5…)

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 19, 2011, 07:00:18 pm
I understood that CMYK is available in v 1.4!!!

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on September 19, 2011, 07:11:38 pm
yes, it's the same procedure in 1.4, but you told us (in another thread) that your final output should be a pdf/x-1a. if this is still the case, you need the cmyk profile in scribus 1.5.
other pdf versions can be created in 1.4; and if they are in cmyk, you need the profile there too.

sorry for misleading…
utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 24, 2011, 01:25:15 pm
Yes, utnik it seems as if none of the tutorials I have read, or even the tutorial book that I have bought tells me how to turn a graphic into a CMYK one in Scribus 1.4.

Have even produced vector graphic in Inkscape for my publication and when I come to start producing a PDF of it i find a error.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on September 25, 2011, 01:15:37 pm
hi wena

what's the error message, displayed when you try to export a pdf?

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 25, 2011, 03:09:00 pm
Yes, utnik but it allowed me to produce a PDF, I suspect it is because that the graphics had not been converted into  CMYK, this was in v1.4.

I was running a copy off to ask my friend their opinion on the layout.
 
That is whey I want to know how to do it.

Thanks

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on September 25, 2011, 04:23:48 pm
hi wena

you don't have to convert pictures/graphics into cmyk before you generate the pdf (except for pdf/x-3, with mandatory cmyk images…)

what was the text of the error message?

could you produce the final print pdf?

i think, i told you how to deal with scribus to end up with a cmyk pdf…

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on September 25, 2011, 05:15:53 pm
Yes, utnik it seems as if none of the tutorials I have read, or even the tutorial book that I have bought tells me how to turn a graphic into a CMYK one in Scribus 1.4.

It's because its neither possible nor necessary.

When you export a PDF "for printer" all content in that PDF will be CMYK.

When you export a PDF "for web/screen" all content in that PDF will be RGB.

It does not matter what colorspace the images have in the SLA, Scribus does the conversion on the fly during PDF export.
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on September 25, 2011, 06:07:39 pm
Thank you two, utnik I will do it again with the same file to see the error. Am I able and if  necessary  send a screen shot.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on December 02, 2011, 05:39:44 pm
A friend solved the Cover Template for me.

Is there a way to determine if my colors are correct after converting to CMYK. I have read that LS have a profile for the black.

That will be O.K. for the content of the book.

But I am working on a cover for a book, it includes a full color photo. I know a little about CMYK and that it’s colours are different to those in normal photos.

I wonder if anyone has attempted to use CMYKTOOL, it looks interesting and may help profiling?
 

So how do I do the changes of color profiling?

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on December 02, 2011, 07:53:21 pm
hello wena

color management is a bit tricky – for perfect results you need:

i supose, you don't have a calibrated monitor at hand – so you have to deal with amateur conditions…


i could not find out, which cmyk profile ls requires – they don't mention a lot about color profiles.
i hope, you have some informations about!!
you have to select it in 'document setup' → 'pdf export' → 'pre-press', otherwise you will have unpredictable results…

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on December 02, 2011, 08:12:17 pm
John_Jason_Jordan mentioned on another thread  that he had a sulution, would this be a solution for me.

http://wexfordpress.com/tex/SWOPcoated5_240.icc
 
But I would need to know how to instal it and how to use it.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: utnik on December 02, 2011, 09:35:39 pm
hello wena

'SWOPcoated5_240.icc' is a profile, that limits the total color coverage to 240% – from this point of view, it's a safe one. i don't know, if it matches more or less with the ls-print-workflow…

to use it, you have to install it in your system.
i think, it's in: /usr/share/color/icc… (i'm not on the linux machine now, so i can't double check this)
after that, you can select the profile in 'document setup' → 'pdf export' → 'pre-press' as output profile.
scribus will convert your book cover to the related cmyk color space.

utnik
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on December 02, 2011, 10:31:49 pm
I have now read that there is a color management system  on Scribus 1.4 and above.

Will this be of help? A color piker would be good to get the color of the main parts of the cover photo.

Dec 3
I though I had cracked the color profile problem. I opened a photo in Gimp and with its color piker got the yellow as “fff528”. Then using the same photo in Scriburs 1.4 and going to the colour wheel and in CMYK I expected to get exactly the same color by entering the same definition, but there where no such facility there.

It is amazing that both books that I have purchased just don't get down to this subject.

Thank you  

Wena
 
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on December 06, 2011, 11:04:57 pm
O.K. now I have found this information:-

•   "Littlecms libraries installed and Scribus compiled with lcms support. You can tell by looking at Help > About Scribus and looking for C-C-T. The first C means Scribus is compiled with littlecms support. This is standard with MacOSX and Windows."

In color management and the color wheel I find that I can get to the CMYK, but if I change settings there nothing happens to the color. 

And the same place that I have found that information declares that the Linex version don't always have the littleCNS.

So what do I do to get my CMYK profile correct for LS?

Wena

Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on December 07, 2011, 08:56:05 am
It seems as you are confusing things here. Please try to learn what color management is about.

I copy the links I posted in another discussion here in the forum:

http://www.normankoren.com/color_management.html
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_management.htm
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/CM_intro.html
http://www.blurb.com/guides/color_management/intro
http://www.booksmartstudio.com/color_tutorial/
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on December 07, 2011, 01:47:16 pm
Thank you Nermander,

I have seen most of them, and I have found, probably in my hurry to get things done, they have confused me more.

I have 6 books to do, the one is mostly done, apart from the covers.  I think I understand the difference between RGB and Cmyk.

But I need to understand how to make a good color front cover for the first of the books.

I must also be economical with the process as I am on a pension and attempting to get this work done.

I have now spent several days in just ATTEMPTING understanding the process.

Please will some one on this forum tell me how to use Scribus, Gimp, and my laptop to do the job.

Wena


Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on January 31, 2012, 09:04:37 pm
I now need to know for sure which box to tike to make sure I get a CMYK

see the attachment.
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on January 31, 2012, 10:09:22 pm
None of those.
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on February 01, 2012, 12:20:55 am
Thank you Nermander, when I look under the tab prepress I see that the CMYK is there but greyd out just under the words output file. Is that O.K.

Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on February 01, 2012, 08:20:40 am
Are you talking about the profile for PDF/X-3?

That will be greyed out as long as you are not exporting to PDF/X-3.

The major difference between PDF/X-3 and the other PDF formats is that with X-3 the conversion to CMYK is optional, Scribus can instead embed a profile in the file and have all images keep their colorspace (thus leaving to the printer/RIP to do the CMYK conversion).

Don't use X-3 unless you really know what you are doing.
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Wena on February 01, 2012, 02:03:50 pm
But Nermander all three  choices are the same Pre Press, see on the screen shot I have attached. all them declare that the "output intent".

The screen shot is of choice 3!!
Wena
Title: Re: CMYK
Post by: Nermander on February 01, 2012, 06:31:21 pm
Yes, and as I said, that option is disabled unless you set Scribus to export to PDF/X-3.

I'm on an old laptop now that only has 1.3.6, but there are not much differences to those dialogs.

If you chose PDF/X-3 you will not be able to set Output intended for, because with PDF/X-3 there will be no conversion. All images will be exported "as is" with information on what colorspace they are in. And Scribus will embed information as to which profile the RIP/printer should use for the conversion to CMYK.