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#41
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by AdmFubar - October 01, 2024, 06:37:24 PMwill one be able to separate the sub panel as a floating window?that would solve a positioning issue and give easy access when formatting large documents.
#42
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by tim_occ - October 01, 2024, 11:34:04 AMQuotethis means that having too many levels / too fine graded expansions will make the UI elements have a different position each time.
Good point.
Quoteone content panel, with three expandable sections which are themselves expandable?Yes, that is the idea.
First, I would try to reorganize the subsections as proposed in the last screenshot. It is easy to wrap or unwrap them in parent containers. Then we can see if the additional nesting makes sense at all.
Quoteif it's the case, i'm not sure it will be necessary to make the character and paragraph section expandable...Good point too.
I will play around with the containers and check what makes sense. Things that work on paper may not work in reality.
Thanks for your feedback.
#43
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by a.l.e - October 01, 2024, 07:20:28 AMfood for thoughts: muscle memory should probably not be forgot...
this means that having too many levels / too fine graded expansions will make the UI elements have a different position each time.
anyway, do i understand correctly your wild idea?
one content panel, with three expandable sections which are themselves expandable?
if it's the case, i'm not sure it will be necessary to make the character and paragraph section expandable...
but it's a small detail...
this means that having too many levels / too fine graded expansions will make the UI elements have a different position each time.
anyway, do i understand correctly your wild idea?
one content panel, with three expandable sections which are themselves expandable?
if it's the case, i'm not sure it will be necessary to make the character and paragraph section expandable...
but it's a small detail...
#44
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by tim_occ - September 30, 2024, 07:57:36 PMOK, I've also thought about the "new" layout for a while and the longer I look at it, the more things I see that aren't good. I may have changed too much unnecessarily. Currently, the "Text" section at the top contains some elements from the other sections, which can be confusing when you're looking for them. The basic idea of the "Text" section was to show the most used functions in one place. But we can create a global toolbar for that later (that was planned anyway).
I took a look at InDesign and Affinity Publisher for comparison. Both have a separation between paragraph and character (Scribus has it the style manager too). InDesign has everything in one panel, Publisher has its own panel for each (similar to InDesign in the past). Publisher has a finer division into subcategories, similar to Scribus.
Here's another wild idea: What if we marry both concepts?
In concrete terms, this means that we will put everything in one panel (as was previously the case in Scribus), but there will only be 3 main sections (Character, Paragraph and Layout). This gives us the basic concept of InDesign. Within each main section, we will divide thematically into further categories, similar to Publisher and as was previously the case in Scribus.
Each collapsible section saves its state and can be individually collapsed or expanded. I think that for most user tasks, you only need to expand the first subcategory in the Character Section and Paragraph Section.
Character -> Font
Paragraph -> Alignment & Tabs
I also find the Fonts feature section terrible. At the moment, all possible settings are known. This means that you can also design corresponding icons for them. I would summarize the whole thing under "Typography".
I also noticed that Publisher and InDesign do not have text columns in the text properties. That is a separate feature.
I took a look at InDesign and Affinity Publisher for comparison. Both have a separation between paragraph and character (Scribus has it the style manager too). InDesign has everything in one panel, Publisher has its own panel for each (similar to InDesign in the past). Publisher has a finer division into subcategories, similar to Scribus.
Here's another wild idea: What if we marry both concepts?
In concrete terms, this means that we will put everything in one panel (as was previously the case in Scribus), but there will only be 3 main sections (Character, Paragraph and Layout). This gives us the basic concept of InDesign. Within each main section, we will divide thematically into further categories, similar to Publisher and as was previously the case in Scribus.
Each collapsible section saves its state and can be individually collapsed or expanded. I think that for most user tasks, you only need to expand the first subcategory in the Character Section and Paragraph Section.
Character -> Font
Paragraph -> Alignment & Tabs
I also find the Fonts feature section terrible. At the moment, all possible settings are known. This means that you can also design corresponding icons for them. I would summarize the whole thing under "Typography".
I also noticed that Publisher and InDesign do not have text columns in the text properties. That is a separate feature.
#45
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by a.l.e - September 30, 2024, 09:56:53 AMmy thoughts about indicating local changes: what about making values that are not local less visible (instead of making the ones that are local more visible)?
this can be done by reducing the contrast of the background (light gray background) or of the value (dark gray instead of black).
then the "important" values will stick out by being "normal", and not by being exceptional.
most of the time, those are the values i want to see, but i don't really want to be warned about them...
this can be done by reducing the contrast of the background (light gray background) or of the value (dark gray instead of black).
then the "important" values will stick out by being "normal", and not by being exceptional.
most of the time, those are the values i want to see, but i don't really want to be warned about them...
#46
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by a.l.e - September 30, 2024, 09:50:04 AMone "small" issue:
when i look (again) at the "column and distances" section, i tend to see the "columns" and "sizes" labels as the titles for the fields below it (left and right frame margin).
one possible solution could be:
not a huge thing, since i expect most regular user to turn of those labels, and i also expect more of those labels to disappear with the time (and the improvements in the dialog layout + quality of the icons!)
another minor issue: the top and bottom paragraph space are still missing...
you might want to take into consideration that, one day, they will probably be added somewhere in the text properties.
my humble suggestion would be to move the "tabulators" button below the "alignment" ones (in the text section), the same place it has in the paragraph styles...
(and in the future add there four input fields for the left, right, top and bottom margin of the paragraph...)
when i look (again) at the "column and distances" section, i tend to see the "columns" and "sizes" labels as the titles for the fields below it (left and right frame margin).
one possible solution could be:
- move the columns and distances to the bottom of the section
- rename the section as "distances and columns"
- this might take some visibility away from this way of creating the columns (which in my eyes should not be the default way to create columns in scribus)
- ... or just remove the label, since the icon alone is good enough...
not a huge thing, since i expect most regular user to turn of those labels, and i also expect more of those labels to disappear with the time (and the improvements in the dialog layout + quality of the icons!)
another minor issue: the top and bottom paragraph space are still missing...
you might want to take into consideration that, one day, they will probably be added somewhere in the text properties.
my humble suggestion would be to move the "tabulators" button below the "alignment" ones (in the text section), the same place it has in the paragraph styles...
(and in the future add there four input fields for the left, right, top and bottom margin of the paragraph...)
#47
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by tim_occ - September 29, 2024, 10:35:32 PMI think this will be the final state (for now 
)
What has been changed:
- icons, now there are many new icons for inputs
- hyphenation section has new "hyphenate" and "dehyphenate" buttons
- "optical margins" and "first line offset" has been moved to "columns & distance" section
- color selection has been moved to "text" section (as buttons)
- "vertical alignment" has been moved to "text" section
- distances have a new "link" button to change all values at one
- line height value is always visible, if you select "baseline" or "automatic" it shows the calculated values
- sections has been reordered
There are some notes about the style manager. I kept the color selection and optical margins as it is.
At the moment, I have no good ideas how to indicate local changes of child styles compared to their parent style. Usually the differences are marked with bold text, this is a little complicated if you just have buttons with icons.
However, the main intention was to optimize the text properties palette. The style manager changes are made so that it is kind of consistent and need of course a second iteration.
I will clean up some unused code and comments and will provide a patch in the next days.
)What has been changed:
- icons, now there are many new icons for inputs
- hyphenation section has new "hyphenate" and "dehyphenate" buttons
- "optical margins" and "first line offset" has been moved to "columns & distance" section
- color selection has been moved to "text" section (as buttons)
- "vertical alignment" has been moved to "text" section
- distances have a new "link" button to change all values at one
- line height value is always visible, if you select "baseline" or "automatic" it shows the calculated values
- sections has been reordered
There are some notes about the style manager. I kept the color selection and optical margins as it is.
At the moment, I have no good ideas how to indicate local changes of child styles compared to their parent style. Usually the differences are marked with bold text, this is a little complicated if you just have buttons with icons.
However, the main intention was to optimize the text properties palette. The style manager changes are made so that it is kind of consistent and need of course a second iteration.
I will clean up some unused code and comments and will provide a patch in the next days.
#48
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by tim_occ - September 29, 2024, 10:08:07 PMVertical alignment is now in "text" section (next to horizontal alignment). I forgot to mention it.
#49
User Interface / Re: Indigo UI: Text Properties
Last post by a.l.e - September 29, 2024, 08:11:50 PMi like what i see...
only one detail i've noticed: the frame's vertical align seems to be missing in "column & distances"
only one detail i've noticed: the frame's vertical align seems to be missing in "column & distances"
#50
Code / Re: Feature discussion: column...
Last post by a.l.e - September 29, 2024, 08:06:34 PM- pull the prepared layout with welds from the scrapbook
- press i + click on the title frame
- paste
- apply the title styles
- adjust the height of the top frame
(specific welds are created in advance for multiple use cases)
this is:
- 2 click and drag
- 2 keys
- 3 mouse click
please don't get me wrong: for your specific use case (a very strict layout with text only), i'm sure that having multiple columns per frame is the fastest and simplest solution.
and i also believe that the solution you're suggesting is the fastest to implement.
the issue i want to raise is: way too many people, when they see a hammer they use it for everything.
my goal here is "just" to highlight the dangers hidden behind this feature and get it implemented in a way that it does help the people to use it in the right way.
(well, my goal might also be to show that having a good welding system would also help make scribus a better fit for workflows that need to be fast and flexible)
- press i + click on the title frame
- paste
- apply the title styles
- adjust the height of the top frame
(specific welds are created in advance for multiple use cases)
this is:
- 2 click and drag
- 2 keys
- 3 mouse click
please don't get me wrong: for your specific use case (a very strict layout with text only), i'm sure that having multiple columns per frame is the fastest and simplest solution.
and i also believe that the solution you're suggesting is the fastest to implement.
the issue i want to raise is: way too many people, when they see a hammer they use it for everything.
my goal here is "just" to highlight the dangers hidden behind this feature and get it implemented in a way that it does help the people to use it in the right way.
(well, my goal might also be to show that having a good welding system would also help make scribus a better fit for workflows that need to be fast and flexible)