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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: tom on February 18, 2024, 06:30:23 PM

Title: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 18, 2024, 06:30:23 PM
* Cannot convert a vector thing to bitmap
* Cannot resample/resize images
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: rocking on February 18, 2024, 07:38:28 PM
Does the image display?  Have you tried hitting F3 and then using free scaling to change the size of the image?
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 18, 2024, 08:04:10 PM
I can change the size but it does not resample. For example, I imported 300 x 300 pixel image and it is 1 inch square at 300 dpi. Let's say now I want to upscale it to 600 x 600 pixels while staying at 300 dpi. Makes sense?

Another thing:
* When editing a curve's control points, there is no option to smooth/cusp the node.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: Nermander on February 18, 2024, 08:15:06 PM
As far as I know the only resampling Scribus supports is downsampling during export to PDF. Anything else you will need to do in an external program.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: PatJr on February 18, 2024, 09:04:32 PM
maybe you could do the graphics work in gimp and inkscape then save them at the dimensions you want
scribus has some tools and filters but is not so good with nitty-gritty graphics editing
 
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 08:09:11 AM
After decades of using Corel, I really wanted to switch to Scribus but, these excuses are killer. It is very interesting that we pro-users know what is exactly needed and the freeware developers are really acting free.  :D
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: tom on February 18, 2024, 08:04:10 PMAnother thing:
* When editing a curve's control points, there is no option to smooth/cusp the node.
OK, I found they are called "Move Control Points Independently" and "Move Control Points Symmetrical". It's fine except, there are no direct conversion without reshaping the controls by hand. Plus, Move Nodes and Move Control Points as separate controls are making it very hard to edit.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 09:32:35 AM
OMG! On the nodes panel,

- Mirror Path Horizontally
- Mirror Path Vertically
- Rotate
- Scale
- Shear

are amazingly useless controls. :o  It's like this is designed by someone who has no idea about how things are really going on.

Hide nodes checkbox is another... Crazy...
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 09:39:58 AM
If you need to build a straight line between 2 nodes. You need to visit the respective control points on each end and do "Reset This Control Point" to straighten the curve. What a pain! Are you doing it like this because you think it is better or you just have no idea?
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 09:53:31 AM
Can't even convert the embedded images to Greyscale, CMYK, or RGB? Sorry, enough pain for last 24 hours messing with Scribus. It's very sad you have wasted 22 years and the application is at this point. I must uninstall now, good luck and very sorry....
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: a.l.e on February 19, 2024, 10:20:25 AM
tom, it would be much more interesting to read your rants, if we had an idea of what you're trying to do.

you're highlighting several things that scribus cannot do or does not do well, but none of them are really features i would try out first, if i were evaluating a DTP package.

since you say that you're used to corel products and corel does not seem to offer a DTP application (i could not find any on their website and i know them for corel draw and wordperfect...), i guess that you're more into the artistic parts of layouts and not doing the boring work scribus is good at.

scribus is probably not the right tool for your tasks, and that's fine.
and it probably also does not have the vibe you're used to.
we're lucky to live in a world where very different software can (still) be used on our computers!
choose the program that fits your needs and taste!

but there is no need to be offensive towards the people who created scribus and those who are trying to explain you what you can expect from it.

have fun
a.l.e
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 11:23:34 AM
No offense, sorry. I'm a DTP professional for 30 years and really wanted to replace Corel with Scribus. It's just a total frustration for me. I appreciate who develops and uses it happily. Obviously, what you and I understand from DTP are totally different things.

Some other people developed free applications to replace Photoshop as well (no, GIMP is not any close to PS as strictly Scribus is not any close to Corel), Photopea succeeded at that point (except CMYK workspace, yet).

Me being offensive won't help you and me in any way but, you being deffensive cannot help you building a better application...

We need:
- Complete color-managed workflow supporting resources with several different color profiles.
- Color profile conversion and resampling of embedded bitmaps.
- A fast and powerful curve tool.
- Overprint preview.
- Customizable base point for objects.
...
I can count forever but anyway...

Peace! I go back to my cave!
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: a.l.e on February 19, 2024, 12:55:14 PM
defensive?

what do you expect for a reply?

yes, tom, you're right.
all our effort were in vain, and we stop developing THE ONLY existing open source DTP package*?
on top of it, the only DTP application that works on open source operating systems!

or would you prefer: we don't have the programming workforce for improving scribus the way we and you would like, but here is the new node editing tool, i quickly programmed for your last night?
it can do everything coreldraw can do and some more.

seriously, there are multiple sides of the medal and, as much the state of scribus often makes me sad, i really think that the world needs scribus.
even in its current shape.

for sure, it won't win a prize for the best DTP software!
not even the second prize.
(it probably will get in the top ten, but only because it's likely that there are not 10 DTP packages around)
but we need it.


finally, i can definitively tell you that scribus cannot replace the corel tools you're using.
don't even try!
you might get closer to a solution if you mix gimp, inkscape, krita, libreoffice and scribus.
but scribus alone will for sure not make you happy.

my last word for today?

if you want to know how things can be done with scribus, you're welcome to ask.
if you want to suggest how scribus should work, you're welcome to write down detailed proposals.
if you want to vent your frustration, that's also ok. but, please keep it decent.
if you want to document, what kind of work you wanted to do with scribus and were not able to do with scribus, that's perfect: but at least share the artworks you were trying to replicate.
and if you are just disgusted and don't want to touch scribus anymore, that's sad, but als also ok.
nobody says that you need to use it or like it.

greetings to the cave
a.l.e


* to be honest, there is a second open source DTP tool... created by tom for tom and -- probably -- only used by tom... while it's one of the coolest pieces of software i have ever seen, i cannot count it as an alternative to scribus. (for the curious ones it's https://laidout.org ... and it might still support the usage of two mouses, one in each hand.)
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: a.l.e on February 19, 2024, 12:55:14 PMif you want to know how things can be done with scribus, you're welcome to ask.
OK, I will try to be clear without tons of complaints.

Let's check this everyday example...
Subject: There is a poor bitmap logo (sent by client) and you typically need to vectorize it by hand.
Steps:
1) Bring the bitmap logo on the page. (works fine)
2) Decrease transparency as much as needed. (works fine)
3) Lock the bitmap image so you can comfortably work on it. (works fine)
4) Pick Bezier and start working on it. (works nice except why do I have snapping? -CASE A-)
5) Switch to wireframe view to precisely draw your curve. (oops... the bitmap became invisible -CASE B-)

Suggestion?
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: RodneyLee on February 19, 2024, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: tom on February 18, 2024, 08:04:10 PMI can change the size but it does not resample. For example, I imported 300 x 300 pixel image and it is 1 inch square at 300 dpi. Let's say now I want to upscale it to 600 x 600 pixels while staying at 300 dpi. Makes sense?

I think it's pretty easy to resample an image in Scribus
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: PatJr on February 19, 2024, 02:55:34 PM
Here's my 'conversion' map for Corel software to open source

Draw > Inkscape
Paint or that other raster editor they bought > GIMP or Krita
Ventura, not sure they still offer that > Scribus
WordPerfect > LibreOffice

yes, the Corel products do have features that make many tasks easier then the open source products but for most people using open source is more like a philosophy
it might not be worth it to you to make the transition, there is a steep learning curve and you already know how to use what works for you with the commercial software
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: RodneyLee on February 19, 2024, 02:52:23 PMI think it's pretty easy to resample an image in Scribus
Could you please share how?

Quote from: PatJr on February 19, 2024, 02:55:34 PMHere's my 'conversion' map for Corel software to open source
PatJr, I am always after abandoning the commercial software and instead do these very simple tasks with Scribus and similar applications. We don't really need to pay thousands of dollars to code the most comprehensive Bezier editor using minimalistic controls as Corel did. It is there since tens of years and it's not rocket science. A software shouldn't be weaker than the commercial one in the simplest tasks just because it is free. This has no technical explanation.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: Nermander on February 19, 2024, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: tom on February 19, 2024, 02:34:53 PMLet's check this everyday example...
Subject: There is a poor bitmap logo (sent by client) and you typically need to vectorize it by hand.
Steps:
1) Bring the bitmap logo on the page. (works fine)
2) Decrease transparency as much as needed. (works fine)
3) Lock the bitmap image so you can comfortably work on it. (works fine)
4) Pick Bezier and start working on it. (works nice except why do I have snapping? -CASE A-)
5) Switch to wireframe view to precisely draw your curve. (oops... the bitmap became invisible -CASE B-)

Suggestion?

Do it in Inkscape instead.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 05:08:30 PM
Quote from: Nermander on February 19, 2024, 04:09:19 PMDo it in Inkscape instead.
Oh, man! Now this is great and feels like home! :o So, why can't we have the same Bezier functionality in Scribus? Going between several applications is not the end of world but, doing it just to manage a few control points decently is funny.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: utnik on February 19, 2024, 06:09:23 PM
hi tom

Quote from: tom on February 19, 2024, 02:34:53 PMOK, I will try to be clear without tons of complaints.

Let's check this everyday example...
Subject: There is a poor bitmap logo (sent by client) and you typically need to vectorize it by hand.

i would never do this with scribus.
scribus ist just a layout-tool and your task is better done with a vector drawing/editing tool (like inkscape (https://inkscape.org)...)

i'm not sure, which applications from corel you use and try to replace with scribus. but if it's 'draw', it will never work as the two applications are for completely different tasks.

utnik

Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: a.l.e on February 19, 2024, 06:23:06 PM
why inkscape, a vector drawing tool, has a better nodes handling?

the inkscape devs have spent 20 years working on that (plus a few other things...), while at the same time the scribus devs figured out how to create print ready PDFs and a rather solid color management.

still, it would be wonderful, if somebody who knows more than average about vector drawing could help improve the node editing in scribus!
just the interaction, not the features.
as it is now, it's painful.

but as you might have understood, it's not high priority for scribus, since real vector drawing is done in inkscape anyway.
in scribus one mostly only does small tweaking tasks.

anyway, vectorizing a logo is clearly something scribus should not be doing.
that's a task for inkscape. they already figured it out and if improvements are needed it's on them : - )a

the goal for scribus should be, that you can "easily" import the result in your layout.
and, personally, the fact that the exchange is not perfect, is something that bothers me much more than all the negative points you listed.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 07:28:06 PM
The confusion comes from my Corel background. Because, CorelDraw alone is an all-in-one solution which is highly capable of editing vector and image stuff together while offering complete layout editing. (In the recent years very crash prone and bloated...)

I found Inkspace really great (Pen tool is almost perfectly same with CorelDraw) but then hit another wall. It is mainly RGB oriented and has very weak CMYK / spot color support, yet. (I hope it's going to be improved.

Tried CMS workaround and SVG export/import between applications, both Corel and Scribus imported that SVG with accurate CMS CMYK values. This is good news while, the intended color profile is not transfered.

So now, with Inkscape and Scribus; I can stop complaining about handling vector images.

Any suggestion about handling images with arbitrary resolution and color spaces in Scribus? Do I have to manage them in another application like Krita/GIMP etc and then bring to the layout?
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: Nermander on February 19, 2024, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: tom on February 19, 2024, 05:08:30 PMOh, man! Now this is great and feels like home! :o So, why can't we have the same Bezier functionality in Scribus? Going between several applications is not the end of world but, doing it just to manage a few control points decently is funny.

Because there is not much use implementing the same things in several applications.

You are essentially saying that you do now want to use a screwdriver for screws, you want your wrench to also be able to handle screws.
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: tom on February 19, 2024, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: Nermander on February 19, 2024, 08:12:55 PMBecause there is not much use implementing the same things in several applications.
Not exactly. Just for sake of already having vectors elsewhere, they now need to add full CMYK support to make it compatible with Scribus. Apart from all the file export/import chain...
Title: Re: Several basic stuff I cannot do in Scribus... Please help!
Post by: a.l.e on February 20, 2024, 12:51:56 PM
I moved the suggestions for the nodes editor to its own topic in the UI section:

https://forums.scribus.net/index.php/topic,4949.msg22769.html#msg22769