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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: yichuang驿窗 on December 17, 2019, 04:46:42 pm

Title: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on December 17, 2019, 04:46:42 pm
Hi,

What I want is the right side of "003.png", but I can only get the left side of "003.png".

What shall I do?

Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 01, 2020, 03:50:18 pm
My Scribus version:
 1.5.5  2019-07-31 - SVN :23095
Build ID: C--T-F-C1.15.10-64bit
Ghostscript: 9.26

Debian Stretch 9.11 / gnome
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: a.l.e on January 02, 2020, 11:48:28 am
hi yichuang

i gave it a try but could not really get it to work to satisfaction.

lists are not stable yet and, in my eyes, if you can't get them to work correctly, you should go for "manual" lists (creating a style with the wanted indents and type the bullets and numbers yourself).

if you're not importing your text from a writer document that has automatic lists, this should be good enough.

there might be a way to get it to work, but it might not trivial...

ciao
a.l.e
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 03, 2020, 06:23:52 am
OK, I got it~

The most import thing to me is that, it's not because of my technical level, but the functional reason of scribus itself. Now I know how to explain this to others.

I will try to make "manual" list, and, I will also try to improt a list from libreoffice writer file. The function of lists in scribus are very useful I think, so, I will try to find another way to make it work better.

Thanks for you testing work~




Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: RodneyLee on January 03, 2020, 04:24:09 pm
if there aren't too many of these to do you could always do a second text box for the sublist, just leave enough space in primary list to drop text box inbetween
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 04, 2020, 10:04:55 am
if there aren't too many of these to do you could always do a second text box for the sublist, just leave enough space in primary list to drop text box inbetween

Yes, this method looks the most intuitive and easy to understand.
I will test it later to see if the implementation is easy enough.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: a.l.e on January 04, 2020, 11:29:22 am
hi yichuang

please, do not suggest the method with two frames in a manual.

thanks.
a.l.e

p.s.: more broadly, do not promote the usage of "automatic" lists in scribus yet. they're not a stable feature.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 04, 2020, 01:28:32 pm
hi yichuang

please, do not suggest the method with two frames in a manual.

…and using paragraph styles (as ale mentioned before) is much easier.
i would put a left tab with the same value as your indent setting. (see attachment / the insert shows the values for the second level…)
with this setting you need to insert your bullet (or number) and the tab stop at the beginning of every entry of your list –with 'copy & paste' much faster as to deal with multiple frames (and repositioning those frames with every step of text editing…)

utnik
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 09, 2020, 11:31:08 am
Is this what you want to achieve? (see attached screenshot). If yes, the trick is to add a left tab (see circled area on the screenshot). It's not easy to set (and to see) because it must be at the exact same position as the left indent. You can then use the numbered lists no problem. They are working fine for me in 1.5.5. No copy/paste needed.

Cheers,
JFL
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: Nermander on January 09, 2020, 09:19:14 pm
If the is the issue, that is a common problem even in MS Word. In older versions of Word there was an "automatic" tab stop at the same place as the indent, but in newer versions you have to explicitly add it.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 12, 2020, 03:36:22 pm
hi yichuang

please, do not suggest the method with two frames in a manual.

thanks.
a.l.e

p.s.: more broadly, do not promote the usage of "automatic" lists in scribus yet. they're not a stable feature.

OK.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 12, 2020, 03:50:02 pm
hi yichuang

please, do not suggest the method with two frames in a manual.

…and using paragraph styles (as ale mentioned before) is much easier.
i would put a left tab with the same value as your indent setting. (see attachment / the insert shows the values for the second level…)
with this setting you need to insert your bullet (or number) and the tab stop at the beginning of every entry of your list –with 'copy & paste' much faster as to deal with multiple frames (and repositioning those frames with every step of text editing…)

utnik

According to your method, I can do part of it.
My problem is, I can not make a good gap between the list number and the text. The gap is too small(gapSmall.png).
And, I can't understand what the"Left Position 7mm(14mm)" function does(function.png).
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 12, 2020, 04:13:38 pm
Is this what you want to achieve? (see attached screenshot). If yes, the trick is to add a left tab (see circled area on the screenshot). It's not easy to set (and to see) because it must be at the exact same position as the left indent. You can then use the numbered lists no problem. They are working fine for me in 1.5.5. No copy/paste needed.

Cheers,
JFL

Yes, the screenshot you uploaded is what I want.
But, my problem is that, I can not make a good "vertical alignment".
I have to adjust the value of "first line indent" countless times, and, the final value won't be a Integer, like yours, 4mm.
My result would be a value like 4.2mm or 3.9mm etc.

I had triey to import odt file made by LibreOffice Writer, but in Scribus, there is only text, with styles and lists lost.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 12, 2020, 07:33:03 pm
hi yichuang

…I can not make a good gap between the list number and the text. The gap is too small…

…And, I can't understand what the"Left Position 7mm(14mm)" function does(function.png).

this lefthand tab is exactly where i define the gap between numbers and text.

utnik
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 12, 2020, 11:00:43 pm
But, my problem is that, I can not make a good "vertical alignment".
I have to adjust the value of "first line indent" countless times, and, the final value won't be a Integer, like yours, 4mm.
My result would be a value like 4.2mm or 3.9mm etc.
Here's how you do it:
-- The values of  "Left Tab" and  "Left Indent" must be the same (use the "position" input field).
-- Then you must add a tab char (obviously) between the number and the text.

That's it. Cheers
Edit: attaching a screenshot so you can see the tab chars
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 13, 2020, 10:07:56 am
hi yichuang

this lefthand tab is exactly where i define the gap between numbers and text.

utnik

Wow, I know why I can't do it your way. Because of font.
My font is Chinese font, Noto Serif CJK SC, from google. I tried another Chinese font, the same result as goole fonts.
In your way, English font is OK.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 13, 2020, 10:49:08 am
But, my problem is that, I can not make a good "vertical alignment".
I have to adjust the value of "first line indent" countless times, and, the final value won't be a Integer, like yours, 4mm.
My result would be a value like 4.2mm or 3.9mm etc.
Here's how you do it:
-- The values of  "Left Tab" and  "Left Indent" must be the same (use the "position" input field).
-- Then you must add a tab char (obviously) between the number and the text.

That's it. Cheers
Edit: attaching a screenshot so you can see the tab chars

From your detailed guidance, I think I found the reason: font.

English font:
-- If I choose English font, like Liberation Sans, the result will be exactly the same as you described. It's OK.
Chinese font:
-- If I choose Chinese font, like Noto Serif CJK SC, the result will be another(4&5&6 in screenshot).
-- If I choose Chinese font, like Noto Serif CJK SC, and, modify the "First Line Indent" from -4mm to -6mm, the result will be OK again(1&2&3 in screenshot).
Before the text, all the input were like this: first the number, second the dot, and then a tab stop.

I do not test -5mm or -4.5mm or -4.1mm etc("First Line Indent"), but I think that one Chinese character needs two bytes, not like English, one English letter needs only one byte.
The -4mm of "First Line Indent" can hold one number and one dot and one tab stop in English fonts. But, in Chinese fonts, -4mm of "First Line Indent" can hold only one number and one dot, not another tab stop. If I insert one number and one dot and one tab stop before the text, the result will be like screenshot 4&5&6.

Is that a bug? Maybe not I think. Because what we did is not a real lists function.

BTW,
All of your examples are -4mm("First Line Indent"), Is it a coincidence?

Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 13, 2020, 11:47:19 am
All of your examples are -4mm("First Line Indent"), Is it a coincidence?
I'm not sure why it's significant, but yeah, I guess so.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 13, 2020, 01:26:40 pm
hi yichuang

could you provide an example (.sla file with the font)?
as i don't really understand, what's going wrong, i would like to play with it…

utnik
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 15, 2020, 01:18:49 am
hi yichuang

could you provide an example (.sla file with the font)?
as i don't really understand, what's going wrong, i would like to play with it…

utnik

Here is the link(with fonts):
https://send.firefox.com/download/0e0cce36c1c97f7c/#ezX6YEx18_ICH297fUUOhQ
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 15, 2020, 10:56:22 am
Here is the link(with fonts):
Maybe I'm missing something but I didn't have any problem adapting your styles. See attachments (screenshot plus modified SLA file).

Cheers,
JFL
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 15, 2020, 03:10:08 pm
hi yichuang

i took a look at your file. as 'jfl' already said,  there's no problem with the font or the styles. but if your indent (and lefthand tabulator) doesn't provide the space for your numbers, the text will begin at the next standard tab stop (which is every 1/2" or 12.7mm by default…)

utnik
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 15, 2020, 03:13:34 pm
Here is the link(with fonts):
Maybe I'm missing something but I didn't have any problem adapting your styles. See attachments (screenshot plus modified SLA file).

Cheers,
JFL

Wow!

I downloaded the .sla file you uploaded and open it in my system, it's OK as your screenshot. Why?
I opened my original file, it's still NG, like the screenshot 115.png.

My scribus version is an appimage, version 1.5.5, the same as yours. And, 20190731, svn version:23095; Build ID: C--T-F-C1.15.10-64bit, Ghostscript version:9.26.
Os: Debian Stretch 9.11/ gnome 3.22.2

And yours?

Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 15, 2020, 03:20:12 pm
hi yichuang

i took a look at your file. as 'jfl' already said,  there's no problem with the font or the styles. but if your indent (and lefthand tabulator) doesn't provide the space for your numbers, the text will begin at the next standard tab stop (which is every 1/2" or 12.7mm by default…)

utnik

Very strange~
Linux and 1.5.5 svn?

ps:
I tested the original file with 1.5.6 svn, and another test in a virtual machine(debian/stretch 9.11/xfce4) that has never run scribus before, the results are all NG~
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 15, 2020, 04:18:18 pm
hi yichuang

Very strange~
Linux and 1.5.5 svn?

my first test was with macOS and scribus 1.5.6.svn.
but now i did the same with lubuntu and 1.5.5 and everything works as expected.

utnik
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 16, 2020, 09:59:53 pm
Very strange~

There's nothing strange. As I said above I adapted your styles, which means the values you had entered were wrong. Compare my version and yours and you'll notice different values.

As far a I can see everything works fine on Scribus' side. The problem is on your side ;) But don't take it personally!

Cheers,
JFL
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 18, 2020, 03:48:42 am
I installed a new virtual machine, ubuntu 18.04, and in this vm I opened my file with scribus 1.5.5svn & 1.5.6svn, the results are all still NG.

For the time being, I want to put this problem aside for a while and then test it later using other people's computers.

If there are new discoveries, I will explain here again.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: jfl on January 18, 2020, 07:51:42 am
I installed a new virtual machine, ubuntu 18.04, and in this vm I opened my file with scribus 1.5.5svn & 1.5.6svn, the results are all still NG.
Why are you wasting your time on virtual machines? Have you read my post above? Your styles were wrong. I fixed them and now all is fine.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: yichuang驿窗 on January 24, 2020, 06:34:42 am
I fixed them and now all is fine.

You modified the "First Line Indent" form 4mm to 6mm, and "Left Indent" form 14mm to 20mm.
Yes, with these values, the styles can work fine.
Title: Re: How to make vertical alignment by "Numbered List" ?
Post by: utnik on January 24, 2020, 01:04:35 pm
You modified the "First Line Indent" form 4mm to 6mm, and "Left Indent" form 14mm to 20mm.
Yes, with these values, the styles can work fine.

…and that's the solution!
you can't put a 5mm wide text (number and point) into a 4 mm wide space…

utnik