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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: ehbowen on December 16, 2023, 04:38:06 PM

Title: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 16, 2023, 04:38:06 PM
I have a novel in prepress which was formatted by a freelancer in InDesign. Now I'm attempting to use Scribus to reformat it for Large Print.

I'm not using the InDesign file; I attempted to import the .idml and got a tangled mess. Instead I'm going back to the original text in LibreOffice and redesigning the new large print edition from scratch, with all new styles.

The problem I'm running into is that I've got a lot of dialogue, single line paragraphs and such. As I'm going through chapter by chapter and changing them to the new styles, it's taking a great deal of time. Is there a way in which I can select and change multiple paragraphs in the same operation? It would be a great time saver.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: AdmFubar on December 16, 2023, 09:14:43 PM
You might want to look at the story editor for applying styles. It has the option of applying styles from a list in a drop down menu on the left of the window.

Select the text frame and press CTRL-T to open the story editor.
I dont think it is what you are really looking for, but hopefully this is closer to it.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: PatJr on December 16, 2023, 09:41:04 PM
I haven't found a way to do that either, be sure to post back here if you find a way
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: AdmFubar on December 16, 2023, 10:14:18 PM
Press F4 to open the style editor, and create you needed styles. then select the text frame you want to apply styles to. Open the story editor CTRL-T, and in the story editor window, on the left will be a sections to apply styles per paragraph. Remember to apply the style to the frame, by using the update text frame icon, or using CTRL-U. :)
Keep in mind you wont see the style applied in the story editor window. Just in your document after you update the frame.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: AdmFubar on December 16, 2023, 10:14:18 PMPress F4 to open the style editor, and create you needed styles. then select the text frame you want to apply styles to. Open the story editor CTRL-T, and in the story editor window, on the left will be a sections to apply styles per paragraph. Remember to apply the style to the frame, by using the update text frame icon, or using CTRL-U. :)
Keep in mind you wont see the style applied in the story editor window. Just in your document after you update the frame.

That's what I've been doing. But I have several thousand paragraphs. You mean that I have to go through and change them one by one? No multiple selections?
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 01:19:25 AM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: AdmFubar on December 16, 2023, 10:14:18 PMPress F4 to open the style editor, and create you needed styles. then select the text frame you want to apply styles to. Open the story editor CTRL-T, and in the story editor window, on the left will be a sections to apply styles per paragraph. Remember to apply the style to the frame, by using the update text frame icon, or using CTRL-U. :)
Keep in mind you wont see the style applied in the story editor window. Just in your document after you update the frame.

That's what I've been doing. But I have several thousand paragraphs. You mean that I have to go through and change them one by one? No multiple selections?

Well, I thought I had it. But it didn't work.

The first step was enlarging the story editor window. That revealed a right-pointing arrow at the upper right of the window, and if I clicked on that it would update the styles for all highlighted paragraphs. So far so good.

The problem came when I tried to "Update Text Frame." It wouldn't update! Everything stayed at the same default font and text size! See the screenshot below. The chapter heading and first paragraph I updated the old way, one paragraph at a time. The rest of the chapter I tried to update with multiple selections. No good. Nothing updated, although the paragraphs are showing the correct text style. I tried going into the styles window and re-saving; I tried exiting the document and restarting Scribus. No change.

This is frustrating and should qualify as a bug.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 01:19:25 AMThis is frustrating and should qualify as a bug.

Well...I went into the Mantis bug tracker and found out that this was reported as a bug. Eight years ago!

I updated the bug report with my own information and screenshot (which it seems I couldn't attach here). So we'll see if anyone looks into it this time.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: utnik on December 17, 2023, 04:56:02 AM
hi ehbowen

Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 01:59:44 AMWell...I went into the Mantis bug tracker and found out that this was reported as a bug. Eight years ago!
...afaik there was no such bug eight years ago and there is none now...
if you select the whole text (or a couple of paragraphs) in the story editor, you can change the whole selection by selecting the style on the upper right of the window and apply it for the selection.
maybe you tried to change the style by selecting it on the left of the story editor window, where you can define it for every single paragraph.
(it works for me on mac os and lubuntu – and if my memory is right, it worked on windows as well...)

utnik
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: AdmFubar on December 17, 2023, 05:40:52 AM
utnik has noted that there is a drop down n the story editor.
There is now automated process to apply various paragraph or character styles in any dtp package. However  if you can explain a work flow, or potential workflow that you are using, we might be able to supply some tips to reduce the manual workload.

Can I assume that you have a large amount of body text? with some smaller set of needed styles that need to be added?
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: a.l.e on December 17, 2023, 09:15:17 AM
sometimes i wonder why somebody is formatting some text in scribus and that person does even have the properties and content palette open.

i've seen people using the story editor in a meaningful way, but why on earth would somebody not even try to select the text in the frame and apply the style with the drop down in the content palette?

(https://forums.scribus.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=4614;image)

you won't be able to select paragraphs across the frame boundaries (which is a real bug that has been left unfixed for years!), but that does not seem to be the what is bugging the user in this case...
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 09:57:19 AM
Quote from: utnik on December 17, 2023, 04:56:02 AMhi ehbowen

Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 01:59:44 AMWell...I went into the Mantis bug tracker and found out that this was reported as a bug. Eight years ago!
...afaik there was no such bug eight years ago and there is none now...
if you select the whole text (or a couple of paragraphs) in the story editor, you can change the whole selection by selecting the style on the upper right of the window and apply it for the selection.
maybe you tried to change the style by selecting it on the left of the story editor window, where you can define it for every single paragraph.
(it works for me on mac os and lubuntu – and if my memory is right, it worked on windows as well...)

utnik

That's exactly what I tried, and you can see the results in the screenshot I uploaded to the bug tracker:
(https://bugs.scribus.net/file_download.php?file_id=12301&type=bug)

The style tags changed...but the styles themselves did not, when I 'updated text frame.' Nor would they change when I updated the style editor.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: AdmFubar on December 17, 2023, 05:40:52 AMutnik has noted that there is a drop down n the story editor.
There is now automated process to apply various paragraph or character styles in any dtp package. However  if you can explain a work flow, or potential workflow that you are using, we might be able to supply some tips to reduce the manual workload.

Can I assume that you have a large amount of body text? with some smaller set of needed styles that need to be added?

I do have a large set of text; it's a full length novel. And there are a fairly small amount of styles which need to be applied. I wasn't using @a.l.e 's suggestion of the content palette because I haven't been able to select text in the text frame; whenever I try it just moves the text frame. Undesirable. Again, I'm brand new to Scribus although not to desktop publishing (look up "Gold Disk Professional Page 1.0 for Amiga" in the ancient history texts); I'm still learning the user interface.

Another problem I'm running into is experimenting with other page sizes. Right now I'm working on a 7" x 10" trim size page, but after looking into print costs and such I think I'll go with either 8" x 10" with the present styles in hardback, plus 6" x 9" with a slightly smaller type size in softcover. I felt that the best way to play with this is to get all my text 'tagged', and then save it as a file so that I can re-import it into the new page sizes. Perhaps you can suggest a more efficient workflow?

What I'm doing right now as a work-around is:
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 12:02:10 PM
One more question: Is there a way to export (just) the styles from a document to later re-import them into a new document? As I said above, I'm wanting to experiment with different page sizes and formats, and I'd prefer to not have to re-invent the wheel with my styles, just tweak them a little bit for the new variants. If there's a way to do this I haven't found it yet.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: a.l.e on December 17, 2023, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 10:15:59 AMI haven't been able to select text in the text frame; whenever I try it just moves the text frame. Undesirable.

If this happens, this is a bug worth being reported!

I just tried with the 1.5.9 I have here and I could easily select some text in the frame and apply a paragraph style to it.

I could even click at the start of the selection to be and shift-click the end of it to get the selection in a comfortable way (the start and end of the selection do not even have to be at the start / end of the paragraphs, just inside of it)

On the other side, the Story Editor needs a new concept and a new implementation: as it is now, it does more harm than good (even if it is useful to some people in some specific cases).

Personally, it's more urgent that a selection can span across frames and pages! (inside of a set of linked frames).
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: a.l.e on December 17, 2023, 12:07:39 PM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 12:02:10 PMimport them into a new document

there is an "import" button in the "style manager"

you don't even need to export the styles, you can import them from a different scribus document.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: a.l.e on December 17, 2023, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 10:15:59 AMI haven't been able to select text in the text frame; whenever I try it just moves the text frame. Undesirable.

If this happens, this is a bug worth being reported!

I just tried with the 1.5.9 I have here and I could easily select some text in the frame and apply a paragraph style to it.

I could even click at the start of the selection to be and shift-click the end of it to get the selection in a comfortable way (the start and end of the selection do not even have to be at the start / end of the paragraphs, just inside of it)

On the other side, the Story Editor needs a new concept and a new implementation: as it is now, it does more harm than good (even if it is useful to some people in some specific cases).

Personally, it's more urgent that a selection can span across frames and pages! (inside of a set of linked frames).

It's my unfamiliarity with the user interface; I didn't (at first) realize that I had to highlight the "T" box to select text.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: AdmFubar on December 17, 2023, 05:34:45 PM
I might have a solution for you. Thought of this late last night while attempting to view the insides of my eyelids..
If you still have access to the source, have it exported as HTML from Indesign.

Not sure how well Scribus's HTML import will work with the file it is worth a shot. If Indesign offers to output the file in various version of HTML then get all the versions you can and see what works best if any.

Here is a blurb about Scribus's HTML import option

https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Help:Manual_Importhtml
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: a.l.e on December 17, 2023, 07:04:43 PM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 02:26:30 PMI didn't (at first) realize that I had to highlight the "T" box to select text.

and you can also "simply" press the "t" key while you're not in edit mode... and with the ESC key you can get out of the edit mode...

scribus is not that bad, once you have learned a few tricks...
sadly, there is no manual (yet) that teaches the good tricks (and good habits)
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 07:31:42 PM
Quote from: AdmFubar on December 17, 2023, 05:34:45 PMI might have a solution for you. Thought of this late last night while attempting to view the insides of my eyelids..
If you still have access to the source, have it exported as HTML from Indesign.

Not sure how well Scribus's HTML import will work with the file it is worth a shot. If Indesign offers to output the file in various version of HTML then get all the versions you can and see what works best if any.

Here is a blurb about Scribus's HTML import option

https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Help:Manual_Importhtml

I don't own InDesign or any Adobe software; I rebel at the thought of using productivity software, especially with proprietary data formats, on a subscription basis. You go out of business, I lose all my work?

No, I had a freelancer create the original...and, next time, I'll stay away from Adobe entirely; making edits or corrections in any software f*s it up big time. I have .idml and .pdf files, neither imports cleanly to Scribus or to Affinity Publisher (separate topic).

Scribus, at least my installation/usage, has an artifact which I call "Ghost Pages In The Basement." Creating pages or adding to a text flow causes two or three text boxes to form all the way at the bottom of the scroll region...and the text flow goes through them first. The only way to restore the text chain is to scroll all the way down, then find and delete the ghost pages. Cut them out of the text chain and the linkage goes back to normal.

I must not be living right.
Title: Re: New User - How to change multiple paragraphs in Story Editor?
Post by: AdmFubar on December 17, 2023, 07:53:29 PM
Quote from: ehbowen on December 17, 2023, 07:31:42 PMI don't own InDesign or any Adobe software; I rebel at the thought of using productivity software, especially with proprietary data formats, on a subscription basis. You go out of business, I lose all my work?

No, I had a freelancer create the original...and, next time, I'll stay away from Adobe entirely; making edits or corrections in any software f*s it up big time. I have .idml and .pdf files, neither imports cleanly to Scribus or to Affinity Publisher (separate topic).
I was suggesting that your freelancer export the file for you. However there is an issue with scribus not being able to import HTML files. Just tried it, but the way is works is a somewhat limited. You have to add  text frames manually, of specify how many pages a new document should open, and then add text frames automatically.

This may still be an option for you try. I'd look into it.