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Scribus => Beginner Talk => Topic started by: Eneen on April 11, 2017, 06:17:45 pm

Title: Text ending symbol
Post by: Eneen on April 11, 2017, 06:17:45 pm
I'd like to add text ending symbol like little square like that red one:
https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-4/fine-typography/end-marks
I want it to be in the same line as main text and align to the right. Is there way to do it like adding some kind of "tab" char between text and symbol and aligning to the right?
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: CGood on April 11, 2017, 09:20:58 pm
Finish your paragraph in a font like Kelvinch and use unicode 220e character.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: Eneen on April 12, 2017, 01:11:20 am
Ok I used Liberation sans special character, but problem is with "special kind of space" that will move symbol to the right keeping text intact.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: CGood on April 12, 2017, 08:02:07 am
Try J Garamond - the regular face - for the U220E character.  Out of several hundred sets of fonts, that single one has the best rendering of U220E. I should have looked through my fonts and found J Garamond. It is better than Kelvinch for that glyph.

Liberation Sans does not have that glyph but instead displays the "tofu" symbol.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: GarryP on April 12, 2017, 10:24:36 am
Liberation Sans does have a square symbol, along with many other symbols.

To get the square:
* double-click the text and place the cursor where you want the square to be inserted;
* choose menu "Insert -> Glyph";
* press the "Show/Hide Enhanced Palette" button (looks like a table);
* in the "Character Class" drop-down (top-right) choose "Geometric Shapes";
* double-click the square glyph;
* press the Insert button;
* close the "Enhanced Character Palette" dialog;
* close the "Character Palette" dialog.

For other symbols just choose a different character class and double-click on the symbol you need.

As for the space between the text and the symbol, that really depends on exactly what you want but an "en space" or "em space" is usually fine - "Insert -> Spaces & Breaks -> Em (or En) Space". You shouldn't normally need anything more than that - the quoted article describes it well.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: CGood on April 12, 2017, 08:29:03 pm
As usual GerryP is a great source. I did not know about that one.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: Eneen on April 13, 2017, 11:01:53 am
As for the space between the text and the symbol, that really depends on exactly what you want but an "en space" or "em space" is usually fine - "Insert -> Spaces & Breaks -> Em (or En) Space". You shouldn't normally need anything more than that - the quoted article describes it well.

Take a look @ attachment. What I'm after is to move dot to the right without moving text. Best of all would be space that extends without need to turn on both side justification.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: utnik on April 13, 2017, 01:01:57 pm
hi eneen

try it with a right hand tab stop at the end of the line! (you may set it in the paragraph style, but only use it for the last line…)

utnik
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: GarryP on April 13, 2017, 04:08:33 pm
Sorry Eneen, I thought I had read your post wrong when you said you wanted it aligned to the right.

It's just that aligning the end mark to the right - therefore away from the end of the text - doesn't seem sensible to me. Moving the end mark to the right of the frame sort of defeats the purpose of using the mark in the first place.

The end mark tells the reader they have reached some kind of "resting place". If the mark is thrown over to the right of the frame then the reader will probably either ignore it or think it's some kind of printing mistake.

Consider my attached screenshot. With the end marks way over to the right they don't really tell the reader anything, and that's if they notice them at all. (I've used way too many end marks but that was just to get my point across.)

I would be happy to be proved wrong on this but I can't ever remember seeing an end mark that doesn't come straight after the text.

On top of that, end marks are most useful when they are used sparingly, usually just once at the end of an article - especially if the article "finishes off" the page. If the reader sees an end mark they know that they don't have to turn the page once they've finished the one they're reading. It gives them an idea of how much reading they need to do.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: Eneen on April 13, 2017, 09:06:39 pm
I agree with you here, but I have situation where columns are thin and aligned to both sides to it looks really nice when right-aligned - it nicely closes composition. Still though can't make it work with tabs stops...
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: utnik on April 13, 2017, 11:43:33 pm
hi eneen

…can't make it work with tabs stops…

why not?

utnik
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: GarryP on April 14, 2017, 12:01:24 pm
Tabs are something that 1.4.6 doesn't handle very well. They're not what I would call "properly integrated into the UI".

You can apparently manipulate tabs using the rulers but I've never managed to do that successfully myself. (Clicking anywhere in the ruler seems to add a tab stop to the end - no matter where you click - and it's never easy to make adjustments as you sometimes can't see what's happening.) Maybe things are different in 1.5.x or I've just not figured out how to do it properly. Your current best bet - unless you want to experiment - is to use the Tabulators in "PP / Text / Columns & Text Distances".

First, double-click in the paragraph you want the tab to be in (tabs are related to paragraphs, not lines).
Then, go to "PP / Text / Columns & Text Distances" and press the Tabulators button.
Then click on the ruled line (anywhere will do at first) to create a tab stop.
Then change the orientation (top-left drop-down) from Left to Right. (This isn't really necessary here but it's good practice.)
Then drag the tab stop to the desired location (use the document ruler to give you a vague idea of where this should be).
Once done, OK the "Manage Tabulators" dialog.
Put the caret (insertion marker/cursor) at the end of the line where you want to insert the tab and press the TAB key.
Now insert the character you want as your end mark.

If the end mark isn't in the right place, go back to Tabulators and reposition as necessary (this might take some experimentation, and a tab that is too far to the right will move onto the next line). It would be nice if the width of the frame/column was somehow reflected/shown in the Tabulators dialog ruler.

Sometimes, when you go into Tabulators, you might not see the tab stop(s) and you might have to click around in the frame a bit to make things visible.

None of this is easy. Once you get the hang of it it's fairly straight forward - while still being awkward - but it's not exactly user-friendly.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: utnik on April 14, 2017, 12:25:48 pm
oh – i see…
i usually do things like that in the 'style manager' (there you can place your tab stops by mumerical values…) – and as i tested this 'end mark' thing, i encountered a problem with the tab stop at the right edge of the field. i had to move it 0.2 mm from the edge to make it work…

utnik
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: GarryP on April 14, 2017, 02:23:35 pm
As utnik suggests, putting tab stops in paragraph styles is a good way to go as you don't have to keep adding tab stops manually. However, if you use tab stops for placing end marks with styles you will need to have different styles for different frame/column widths as tab stops are always measured from the left - I.e. a 10mm tab stop will be in the same place whether the frame/column width is 10mm or 100mm. (If your frames/columns are always the same width then this isn't a problem.)
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: GarryP on April 16, 2017, 11:17:29 am
One - very dodgy - other method I thought of to do this is:

* Press ENTER at the end of the text to create a new paragraph;
* Insert the end mark in this new paragraph;
* Set the new paragraph to Right Justified;
* Set the Offset To Baseline (Advanced Settings) to 100%.

The width of the frame/column can then be changed while the end mark moves to accommodate the width (see attached screenshot showing the same text in two different frame widths).

This is a total hack - and not recommended practice - but might be of interest to someone.

Unfortunately you can't set the offset to more than 100% but if Scribus was changed to allow a higher percentage value it might be a viable - but weird - solution. (Or maybe someone can make tab stops measurable from the right, that would make the whole thing much easier and might have other uses.)
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: steven8 on April 17, 2017, 06:47:42 am
I created a black square shape with the same height as my font's x height, placed it in the bottom right hand corner of a page and saved it to the scrapbook.  I copy it onto the page where it is needed, line it up with the baseline grid at the end of my text, then align it's right side with the right side of my textbox.  It works good, and would be great if you chose to use a small graphic as well.
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: Eneen on April 28, 2017, 11:39:15 am
@GarryP: nice hack! Sadly, as with new paragraph you also add line, so when you drag frame over last line to align all lower lines you get overflow text mark and dot disappears.

@utnik: yep, that way I need style for every column width. Fortunately this is my case.

@steven8: idea was to do it really automatically. I compose newspaper where lots of changes are involved, so manual ways are no-go.

Thank you all!
Title: Re: Text ending symbol
Post by: steven8 on April 28, 2017, 12:07:31 pm
@GarryP: nice hack! Sadly, as with new paragraph you also add line, so when you drag frame over last line to align all lower lines you get overflow text mark and dot disappears.

@utnik: yep, that way I need style for every column width. Fortunately this is my case.

@steven8: idea was to do it really automatically. I compose newspaper where lots of changes are involved, so manual ways are no-go.

Thank you all!

Well, you never know until you suggest.  I honestly can't think of a way to automate that sort of thing.