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Scribus => General Discussion => Topic started by: derWalter on February 16, 2015, 12:52:14 am

Title: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: derWalter on February 16, 2015, 12:52:14 am
Hey there :)

I want to talk about two things, one is just a short suggestion,
the main topic is something I am dreaming of since years.

I was using adobe products since i was 12, as they where the only available thing back then.
Now I find it hard to switch for several reasons.

I love inkscape more than illustrator, as it is way more fresh and creative,
I also love their website concept and the Learn section a lot.
This in particular is something i would love to have on the scribus website,
a section where users can upload how to files like on the inkscape website.

That was the short suggestion, now the main topic:

Did you guys ever try to move a little bit closer together?
On a technical level (linked, live updated, placed files) and
on representation level?
Something like an FOSS "creative" "suite".

I dont know if it could go as far as a shared codebase or
shared interfacedesign (maybe for a special suite edition?)
for me as a user and learner it would be amazing to have
a similar gui, hotkeys, navigation.

maybe one could share code/skill and save time, money and
create something awesome on an other level.

for me it is just a dream, which is constantly reoccurring,
so I wanted to spread my dream and hope some one else
catches and likes it :)!

greetings from austria
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: Kunda on February 16, 2015, 10:40:03 am
Yes, that would be ideal. There is some communication between the different FOSS projects but not enough that puts everyone exactly on the same page. We need more connectors and people who can bridge the projects.
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: GarryP on February 17, 2015, 04:26:27 pm
I very much agree.

Having Scribus, Inkscape and GIMP - and other software? - working seamlessly together would be fantastic.

I can imagine - in some far-off crazy Utopia - right-clicking an image in Scribus and choosing "Apply GIMP/G'MIC Effect", or double-clicking a shape/frame object and being taken to the Inkscape shape editing tools.

Or, and this one is way out there: Selecting a shape, choosing "Render with Blender", and being able to apply some photo-realistic 3D effects. Drool…

Obviously all of this is pie in the sky, but it's nice to have a dream.
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: derWalter on February 28, 2015, 07:38:27 pm
Nice to see, that other people like my vision!

What would be needed?

I like the concept of a similar GUI for different applications,
so it is easier to learn the others once one can handle one.

It was easy for me to learn Illustrator as I was used to the
GUI from Photoshop.

And InDesign was just like biting a pie, related to learning
curve triggered by the similar GUI and UI concept.

I guess what would be needed first hand, would be an agreement
by a certain group of tools, lets say scribus, inkscape, gimp and blender.

Blender would be a quite interesting project to ask,
as the have integrated some other smaller tools into their software in the past.
The also have a strong going and looking Foundation in their background.

By bundling knowledge and skills, all tools would grow stronger.

So much for the social level.

On the technical level, the software would need to get a little bit more abstract.
A unified GUI Layer, a unified RENDER Layer and so forth.
For this a strong, well thought trough technical concept would be needed and
approved by some designers. Maybe one could get some strong players into the
boat, like Valve software?

A centralized userbase, like a centralized help section, forums, howto page (like adobe is doing (bad)),
central plugin api and plugin system (maybe easy by using a centralized render layer) so it is easy
to get all the plugins out there inside the apps (just for instance)

Such a project would need around ten years to get going.
around five years to get the concept done and the first software versions to ship
and an other five years to get everything right and the community running.

And by then it is way time to get new ideas in the boat, get creative and
pass by the big ships and bring on some crazy good stuff :)

live free, feel happy and enjoy life!
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: Nermander on March 01, 2015, 10:28:35 am
Wasn't similar GUI one of the things projects like KDE was trying to acheive? The problem is that such a project needs to be the cathedral organization of development, it will not work well with the bazaar organization.
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: GarryP on March 01, 2015, 02:27:16 pm
I seem to remember - way back in the 90's - that you could embed objects in something like a Word document and then just double-click them to open the application which created the object as a "sub-application/window". This seemed to work okay 20 years ago.
Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: a.l.e on March 02, 2015, 09:14:39 am
hi garry,

you can open and edit a bitmap image by right clicking on it. by default it will use gimp.

for vectors it's a bit harder, since they are always imported as native scribus shapes.
i've been dreaming for years for a vector frame, but the team has no interst for it. (one of the main goals is to avoid color pollution when you import a colorfoul svg into scribus.

for the text, the problem is even harder. not only scribus imports the text as scribus text (obviously), but it allows formattings that are not matched in the office world. an external editing trough office is not possible without writer knowing about scribus. and even then...

imo, something could be done with some sort of markdown editor, that would allow basic editing and notify scribus for the text snippets (or paragraphs) that have been modified.
i'm, very slowly, working on something in that direction.

i will keep on dreaming for vector frames...

Title: Re: FOSS DP SUITE Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus
Post by: GarryP on March 02, 2015, 12:25:51 pm
Hi a.l.e.

I was aware of the right-click "Edit Image" function but it's not the same as what I was talking about. When you double-clicked the embedded object, the "parent" application opened an area within its own document that contained a mini-version of the "child" application. The child application was the full thing but it was running within the document of the parent application, toolbars and everything. It was weird but worked quite well.

I'm fairly certain that PagePlus - or something similar - used to have a "fancy-text" sister application that used to run this way. You used the "fancy-text" application within the document itself to edit the text in fancy ways rather than the parent application having that functionality. You could also run the "fancy-text" application by itself to make posters and the like.

A bit like a plug-in nowadays but it was the full application, which could also be used as a stand-alone thing if necessary.

Ah, it was called "Object Linking and Embedding (OLE)", I just found a web page about it: Phew. Thought I might have been going crazy there for a while. (Or maybe I am and that page is a recipe for steak and kidney pie!)

For vectors, I think understand where you're coming from, up to my basic level of understanding. I'm sure the "model" of colour control/management that's in my head is nowhere as complicated as things actually are.

For text, Scribus already has a mechanism for checking to see if images have been updated. Could a similar thing not be used for text? (Again, my understanding of things is probably way too simplistic but I do understand there are issues related to re-applying formatting after changes.)

On a slightly related issue, in an "OLE situation" - as mentioned above - I think Scribus would have to be the "parent" application as it needs to know what's going on around its frames (for text flow) whereas GIMP and Inkscape create self-contained stuff.

And just a random thought on images, if G'MIC is a GIMP plug-in, could it not also be a Scribus plug-in with some tweaking on the interfaces/protocols? (I'm probably talking nonsense now but that just popped into my head. It sounds good though.)

Anyway, as has already been said, all of this is "pie in the sky" - but if it doesn't get thought about it will never get done.