Author Topic: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?  (Read 497 times)

pcpress

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How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« on: April 27, 2021, 05:32:20 am »
I'm using Scribus Version 1.5.6.1 (AppImage). This version has Orphans and Widows Control. I have a text in two pages. On page 1 I have a Text Frame link to other Text Frame (this second text frame on page 2).

My text has an oprhan line and appears in text frame 2, but I'm using the Orphans and Widows Control (Text Properties > Orphans and Widows). In this section I set 1 lines in Don't separate first and Don't separate last. Even I probe with other numbers (2 or 3 lines) and nothing happens.

Maybe I miss some setting or the Orphans and Widows Control has a way that I don't know for achieve its purpose.

toyotadesigner

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2021, 12:57:52 pm »
Make the text frame a bit longer.

Nermander

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2021, 01:15:08 pm »
Make the text frame a bit longer.

But is not the whole purpose of the automatic widows and orphans control to not have to do manual adjustments?

toyotadesigner

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2021, 01:27:34 pm »
In general: Yes. If you want to typeset a 600-page novel: Yes. For a flyer: No.

If you want to know more, use the search function here in this forum, we already had this topic with several excellent results.

pcpress

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2021, 03:09:27 am »
Make the text frame a bit longer.

But I'm working a book and I have set my margins, so I can't change the size of text frame. I've perceived the paragraphs are modify maybe for the influence of Orphans and Widows Control but I feel it inconstant.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 03:18:06 am by pcpress »

toyotadesigner

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2021, 07:34:26 am »
OK, you are working on a book…

Check this article: https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/scribus-leading-kerning-and-tracking-text

Search this forum for »Tracking« and »Leading«

Try these settings in Text Properties:


toyotadesigner

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2021, 08:28:54 am »
You might do the following:

In the Document Setup, set your baseline grid to the same size as your line spacing. Example: Your text is 12pt, your line spacing is 15pt. The baseline grid should be set to 15pt as well.

Then in the document select the text frame, select text properties, select »Align to baseline grid« instead of automatic or fixed line spacing.

Then in View select »Show baseline grid«

Now you can see where the baseline is running and if it matches with the bottom of the page margin. If not, adjust the margin so that it matches the baseline grid.

Another option is to modify the top and bottom margins of the pages in tiny increments, until the text lines fit.

utnik

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2021, 10:48:46 am »
hi toyotadesigner

all the stuff you write here isn't related to 'orphans and widows'.
unfortunately there are a couple of bug reports (like this one) about 'o&w' not working as they should.

btw. your recommendation for the 'word tracking' is at least a bit strange. you might be confusing the settings for 'word tracking' with those for 'glyph extension'

utnik

mnawij

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2021, 07:32:52 pm »
I do not have any problems with the widows and orphans, maybe your font selection could be an issue???

@utnik word tracking is correct. Sorry to side track OP.

Kerning = space between letters
Tracking = space between words
Letting = space between lines

Cheers!

mnawij

toyotadesigner

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Re: How exactly works the orphans and widows control?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2021, 09:51:24 pm »
Hi Utnik, I know it is not related to orphans and widows, but it helps to understand typesetting in general and particularly for books. If you want to know more about book design and typesetting for books, it might help to read books from Prof. Reuß in Germany (for example »Ende der Hynose — vom Netz und zum Buch« and »Die perfekte Lesemaschine — Zur Ergonomie des Buches«). I don't know if these titles are available in English though…

If you modify the tracking (space between words) and will give it a certain range, the hyphenation might be better (depending on the language, text and font), so that the very last line would remain on the page and not be moved to the next one. Nobody said that book layout and book typesetting is a simple task. 3 minutes »YouTube University« won't take you to the spheres of being a master  ;D

That said, don't think that i.e. Affinity Publisher is flawless or easier to handle. Anyway, have fun with Scribus, it is a joy to work with, and every time the printer hands me the print product I am delighted and proud of the result.


 

palmate