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Yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page (pardon the pun).

I'm not sure about the "for who is it made" bit. I think a "what can I do with it" kind of automatically selects the people who it's made for. Tell the potential users what they can do with it and either they want to do that sort of thing or they won't.

Or, to try and put it another way: Instead of saying it's for people who want to create professional looking documents, it might be better to say "look, you can make posters and books and magazines and DVD cover inserts and all of that kind of thing". People tend to use whatever software lets them make the sort of thing they want to make rather than a certain sort of person using a certain sort of software. (Fanboys excepted.)

Hmm. That doesn't sound much better but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.

I like your additions. A Support link page is a definite must-have so I have no problem with that.

A nicely written Contributions page will also be good. There are probably a lot of people out there that want to contribute in some way but they either don't know what needs to be done or they don't feel that they have the skills needed. Most people haven't been part of an open source project before so they don't understand what goes on or what the various roles do.

There's no clear path showing what someone can do to get involved. For instance, say someone has some coding skills and wants to get involved in fixing - or at least tracking down - some bugs. (A good way to learn new coding techniques.) There are no clear instructions on how they can start to do that. There are little bits and bobs scattered around the wiki and other places but a lot of them are out-of-date and none of them are comprehensive.

What people get is (and I'm simplifying for effect):
1. Download Qt. (Reader: What's that? Why do I need it?)
2. Download all of the other stuff you need, which depends on your machine set-up. (Eh? What stuff? From where? How do I know if I've done it right?)
3. Get the code from GitHub. (How? What's this? Which bit do I need? Where should I put it?)
4. Upload when done. (How do I do that? What if I get it wrong?)

Most of the instructions are for people who already have experience of doing this sort of thing. There's nothing that tells people what to do from scratch and holds their hand during the process. There could be some fantastic coders out there who have only worked on their own stuff and have no experience of using all of these tools. It's easy to say RTFM, but unfortunately the reader will just reply "to heck with this, I'm off" and go elsewhere.

Experts generally don't remember what it's like to not know what they know. They don't remember being the person who doesn't know what's going on because what they know seems so basic and simple to them that they can't understand not knowing it. Everyone starts off knowing nothing at all. If you know it then you had to learn it, and that means someone else has to learn it too.

Anyway, rant over, for now. (I'm sure I've said most of this before.)

I think the website could be improved quite considerably but it's all dependant on the "powers that be". If the Scribus team doesn't want the site to change - and that's fair enough, it's their site and they can do with it as they please - then that's how things will have to stay. In my opinion it would be wrong to keep the site as it is but that's just my single opinion among many. There's nothing special about what I think.

for "historical" reasons, the website is one of the last part of the scribus project that i want to get involved with.

so i'll limit my contribution to one single hint:

is one of the "community" driven scribus homepages and i don't think that kunda would mind, if you would use it as a playground for creating a working prototype for the scribus home page.

if the team likes the result, they can then take the result and put it on

Hi together,

Garry, I totally agree with you.

--- Quote from: GarryP on January 02, 2017, 05:04:07 pm ---I think a "what can I do with it" kind of automatically selects the people who it's made for. Tell the potential users what they can do with it and either they want to do that sort of thing or they won't.
--- End quote ---

Also your comment about the guides for new contributors. I had the same issues as I started to contribute Scribus.

@a.l.e. That would be nice if we would have a playground to setup a prototype for testing and fill content. But at first a theme or layout template can be develop locally. In worst case I can use my own webspace for a public test version. ;)

BTW I got a response from Ton Roosendaal. He sent me a link to the git repository of Blenders wordpress theme. We can reuse the theme or parts of it. I have checked the theme, maybe it is better to create a new theme, because the Blender theme has a lot of hardcoded parts which have to adapt to Scribus.

It's really great that you were allowed to use the Blender site code, it shows a real spirit of open source co-operation. A shame that it's a Wordpress theme though.

I'm in agreement with you about using something simpler. If something can be created with just some HTML and CSS (and maybe some LESS/SCSS in the background) then it will be much easier to maintain. Having dependencies on all kinds of frameworks and libraries in the background just makes things more awkward. Minimum use of Javascript will be good too but may be necessary for some nice little effects (as long as it's mostly "hidden" within the framework then that's fine).

Something like Bootstrap should be okay for what's needed. I've not used it myself for anything - except having a bit of a look round to see what it does - but if the HTML can be kept simple it will be easy for someone to make changes.

Blender is using bootstrap and scss files for compiling to CSS too.

However, I think for Scribus we can make it simple too. For my mockup I used It is a free and nice tool to create mockups with bootstrap. It supports less files and work with plain html and CSS/less. In fact we can easy create different page types (homepage, download page, etc) with this tool and later we port the html to wordpress.

But collaboration is only possible via sharing source files (html, less, images).


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