Scribus Forums

Development => Features => Topic started by: enzogian on April 19, 2019, 12:05:27 pm

Title: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 19, 2019, 12:05:27 pm
Hi to all of you,
not sure if this feature is possible to have but wondering as it would be extremely practical being able to edit an image in the native gimp format which would automatically be updated when imported in Scribus (if recognized as a format (with all its layers etc)
would that be possible ? is it possible to request a feature as such ?
Here thinking on speed and practicality when it comes to edit and the number of files needed when having to update changes etc.. ;)
hope it makes sense,
thanks and regards.

PS: I know making comparisons to Adobe is not a welcome thing to say around the forum, but honestly I do mention it as making interchangeable formats recognizable (or able to be imported) among the many tools to create a final product is a good strategy that should not be exclusive of corporations like a Adobe. I personally dream of a time in which all these formats could be imported with all its layers among the many creative tools (for page layouts, or even for video editing etc.. ) 
Hoping some day we could talk of an OPEN SOURCE CREATIVE TOOLS bundle quite integrated among them ... here an invitation as well to join a group of open source creative tools in fb where we share and promote all the tools to be creative and productive ;)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/oscreativetools/

Thanks and cheers
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: Nermander on April 20, 2019, 10:09:23 am
According to this page Scribus should already support XCF, but I am not sure what has happened since 2008.

https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/File_formats_that_should_be_supported_by_Scribus_(wish_list)

Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 20, 2019, 05:12:52 pm
wow did not know about, however the link is taking to a page titled "file formats that should be supported by Scribus (wish list)
?? heheh omg my wish list would be huge for sure but if gimp native files (wiht all its layers etc) is supported I would be more than happy for sure ;)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: Nermander on April 20, 2019, 08:54:49 pm
I see the closing parenthesis was cut off from the link. The correct link should be:

https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/File_formats_that_should_be_supported_by_Scribus_(wish_list) (https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/File_formats_that_should_be_supported_by_Scribus_(wish_list))

And according to that page the support for xcf was completed during the 2008 Google Code Summer of Code.

But I am not sure if it was ever implemented in Scribus, it seems my 1.5.2 does not indicate xcf as a Get image file format.

But the page also mentions the GIMP developers have advised against using xcf as an intermediate format because it relies on GIMP internals. (Which is what I initially suspected.)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: a.l.e on April 22, 2019, 10:02:12 am
yep, the gimp developers did not want other programs to use the xcf format.

i'm not sure that this is still the case, though...
i think i've read something somewhere that did let me think that way...
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 22, 2019, 03:38:40 pm
Wow, so it seems a GIMP fault so to speak (would it be up to GIMP developing other sort of formats or allowing other programs to use their native format ??)
I would have never guessed this really as I always thought open source would have at their core the collaborative philosophy avoiding this sort of "egoist" behavior so to speak .. I feel very disappointed at this (though have to confess I don't understand too much the technical reasons that may be behind this, but is a fact that we can't import them into Scribus, actually I experience the same frustration when trying to import xcf in  Inkscape.

I feel kind of "depressed" as it seems the dream of having a sort of creative bundle (with high level of integration and  interchangeability of formats etc... among the three main programs for graphic design "GIMP, Inskape and SCRIBUS would still be far away ....   :( if ever....  :(
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 22, 2019, 04:07:57 pm
by the way, just in case interested, we have opened a Poll in the Open Source Creative Tools group in facebook to see what votes and or comments (feedback) would be like.. (?) wondering if GIMP would have never considered the convenience of making their native format available to be used by these two main programs (Inkscape and Scribus) for graphic design and layouts .. ?

thanks to all and cheers,
here the link of the group where the poll has been posted ;)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/oscreativetools/
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: a.l.e on April 22, 2019, 06:23:14 pm
it's not a thing of egoism.

the gimp developers want to be able to make changes to their own format as they see fit.
that's complex enough, without having to worry about the effects on other software.

on the other hand, some of the gimp developers where (and i guess are) involved in the creation and development of the ORA (open raster) bitmap format.
which is an interchange format supported by a few (free) graphics programs.

this is compatible with the thoughts behind the "export" command in gimp.
the xcf contains the whole information necessary to gimp for supporting your work.
when you're ready for publishing your image, you should use the "export" command and pick one of the formats that are good for that task.
it's well known, that many people have big issues with this choice, but the more i use it, the more i think that theoretically it's a good idea...
(practically, i'm very happy that they have introduced the "file > overwrite"command.)

so what you might want are new features in ORA and a good support for them in many applications!
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: Nermander on April 22, 2019, 06:40:41 pm
If Scribus was to fully implement the xcf format this really means that parts of the GIMP code needs to be in Scribus. This means:

1. Scribus will grow, probably a lot
2. Scribus may need to be released in a new version each time GIMP is released in a new version

What maybe could be though of is to implement som kind of "hook", so Scribus till open GIMP with a reference to the XCF, then when GIMP closes it will export a TIFF from the XCF which Scribus imports.

So, all you need to do is write that function (remember that Scribus is developed by volunteers, you can be one of them).
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 22, 2019, 07:11:48 pm
it's not a thing of egoism.

the gimp developers want to be able to make changes to their own format as they see fit.
that's complex enough, without having to worry about the effects on other software.

on the other hand, some of the gimp developers where (and i guess are) involved in the creation and development of the ORA (open raster) bitmap format.
which is an interchange format supported by a few (free) graphics programs.

this is compatible with the thoughts behind the "export" command in gimp.
the xcf contains the whole information necessary to gimp for supporting your work.
when you're ready for publishing your image, you should use the "export" command and pick one of the formats that are good for that task.
it's well known, that many people have big issues with this choice, but the more i use it, the more i think that theoretically it's a good idea...
(practically, i'm very happy that they have introduced the "file > overwrite"command.)

so what you might want are new features in ORA and a good support for them in many applications!


Hi ale, I definitely have to find more information on this files extension called ORA and its capabilities to see if it could a solution or alternative to the issues I was trying to expose.. Thanks a lot for the information ;)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 22, 2019, 07:19:33 pm
If Scribus was to fully implement the xcf format this really means that parts of the GIMP code needs to be in Scribus. This means:

1. Scribus will grow, probably a lot

YES, exactly that's what I think (it would be fantastic such a degree of integration I guess...)

2. Scribus may need to be released in a new version each time GIMP is released in a new version

What maybe could be though of is to implement som kind of "hook", so Scribus till open GIMP with a reference to the XCF, then when GIMP closes it will export a TIFF from the XCF which Scribus imports.

Sound interesting though I am not a programmer and I would be able to know what are the best coding solutions for such a thing...

So, all you need to do is write that function (remember that Scribus is developed by volunteers, you can be one of them).

This is a huge frustration for people like me that are not into coding or programming, some times when trying to suggest or exposing something people tend to perceive it as a "complaint" or even with some degree of hostility (not this case here) against those who dare mentioning some features present in commercial software (particularly Adobe) but honestly, if I was able or have a minimum of talent to code I would be the first one cooperating in that important field ...


Thanks a lot for your feedback and replies ;)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 22, 2019, 10:56:42 pm
it's not a thing of egoism.

the gimp developers want to be able to make changes to their own format as they see fit.
that's complex enough, without having to worry about the effects on other software.

on the other hand, some of the gimp developers where (and i guess are) involved in the creation and development of the ORA (open raster) bitmap format.
which is an interchange format supported by a few (free) graphics programs.

this is compatible with the thoughts behind the "export" command in gimp.
the xcf contains the whole information necessary to gimp for supporting your work.
when you're ready for publishing your image, you should use the "export" command and pick one of the formats that are good for that task.
it's well known, that many people have big issues with this choice, but the more i use it, the more i think that theoretically it's a good idea...
(practically, i'm very happy that they have introduced the "file > overwrite"command.)

so what you might want are new features in ORA and a good support for them in many applications!

wow Ale thanks for the info, I have tested ORA extension and it seems to do the job, is a pity GIMP does not have that format as save as (default) but that is not grave, I have tried it with Inskcape but Inkscape does not import ORA :(

But is great knowing so far that Scribus is able to import ORA !

Thanks for the info really, I hope being able to participate in some Inkscape forums to suggest or ask on the use of this format as well (?)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: a.l.e on April 23, 2019, 09:54:03 am
since i personally don't need more features in an image than the pixels being correctly stored (with a bit of compression and transparency), i have not checked the state of the openraster support before sending my latest post.

indeed, in debian gimp does not have built-insupport for ora files.
it's probably due to the fact that openraster is a standard that is still being worked on, and the gimp release cycles used to be too long to keep it up to date with the changes happening in the file format.

gimp has now quite regular releases and ora has is not changing that much anymore, still, i need to add the "gimp-plugin-registry" to get support for opening and saving ora files.
(i have no idea, how to that works on mac os or windows... you will have to ask in the gimp forums if you have issues with that...)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: utnik on April 23, 2019, 12:52:53 pm
i didn't know about .ora files. but a short test with scribus 1.5.4 and gimp 2.10.10 on macOS was successful.
even the blend modes of the layers of an .ora file are exported correctly to .pdf 1.3 – in some way scribus can flatten those transparencies…

utnik
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: enzogian on April 23, 2019, 03:14:49 pm
i didn't know about .ora files. but a short test with scribus 1.5.4 and gimp 2.10.10 on macOS was successful.
even the blend modes of the layers of an .ora file are exported correctly to .pdf 1.3 – in some way scribus can flatten those transparencies…

utnik

I  have tested in WIndows and it works fine as well, I wish INkscape could support importing this extension ORA  as it would make possible to "emulate" so to speak teh integration capabilities that adobe suite has (which comes as a very convenient plus when time is against you when having to deliver works for printing under lots of pressure of endless changes and deadelines etc...  ;)
Title: Re: Import XCF (GIMP native format)
Post by: Nermander on April 23, 2019, 05:29:18 pm
[quote ]

1. Scribus will grow, probably a lot

YES, exactly that's what I think (it would be fantastic such a degree of integration I guess...)

I think you misunderstood me, I meant the size of the actual program, not the user base.