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Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by GarryP on March 10, 2018, 02:42:13 pm »
And let it not be forgotten that charts - and tables - can be made to deliberately mislead people.
There are some interesting examples here:

Charts or tables? In the end, it depends on who you're speaking to and what you want to tell them.
Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by a.l.e on March 10, 2018, 12:56:22 pm »
btw, here a few table i consider "meaningful" (or don't have an easy alternative):

- : but i fear that it's not trivial to get a table tool to create it...
- : see the table at the top right. but, again, find a table tool that can do triangular fields
- catalogs: tables are a ugly solution there... but i don't see any alternative...

Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by a.l.e on March 10, 2018, 11:55:08 am »
thanks garry for the link!

sadly, i don't really agree with their table example. at least not in the context of scribus.

in my eyes, if there are interesting values about the salespersons, they should go in the text.
i don't see much value in putting that "static" table in the document.
imo, before publishing those numbers, one should think about the message to be conveyed.
in this specific case, probably, the focus is on the evolution of each person's sales through the months.
then something like the attached chart is much more expressive.

i agree with the author of the article, that sometimes you want to provide the raw data to your readers.
but that raw data is something that should go in a (linked, online) spreadsheet or -- eventually -- in the annexes.
the reader should be able to interactively "play" with it and we have nowadays tools for doing that.
(hey we have jupyter nowadays!)

the more i think about it, and the less i'm convinced that there are reasons for putting tables in a layout document...
except the laziness of the author : - )

my position: the tabulator are often enough, and if they are not, the data is probably better presented as a chart.

all that having being said, the main message is still: don't use the table tools provided by scribus.

p.s.: i welcome examples of data that cannot be presented as tabulators but needs a table! (for what it's worth: the example in the linked article can be created with tabulators in scribus... even if -- very sadly -- you have to use a little "hack"... since scribus does not have background colors for paragraphs)
Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by GarryP on March 10, 2018, 11:01:19 am »
Thanks for attaching the file deonholt but it was made with 1.5.3 so I can't open it.
I had a feeling that the problem might lie with the formatting/styles - maybe line spacing, something like that - but, since I don't use 1.5.3, I can't check it. Maybe someone else can.

I would generally recommend what a.l.e says above; tables are best done elsewhere and imported into Scribus.
However, do an internet search on "when is table better than chart" for a bit more info' on when to use tables/charts. For example, this page has some good reasoning.
Text and Typography / Re: Please help me understand Styles
« Last post by GarryP on March 10, 2018, 10:40:05 am »
You're right, I wasn't thinking about people with limited screen space so that's a good point.

Of course people should be able to close the PP if they need/want to, what I was trying to emphasise is that they don't have to if they don't need/want to.

Quite a few people will understand the concept of a File Properties dialog, where that Properties dialog allows the user to manipulate the settings for a particular file. If someone misunderstands how the Scribus Properties Palette works, there could be a chance that they think it works in the same way and keep closing the PP - for the current object - to then work on a different object. That's the situation I was trying to avoid.

As for the recent UI changes, I'll wait until 1.6 arrives before wondering how my workflow will change.
Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by deonholt on March 10, 2018, 08:57:35 am »
Thanks for the reply.

I have just done the following.
1. I created new doc and created same table as in original doc.
2. It works perfect.
3. Opened original doc.
4. Copied newly created table in new doc and pasted in original doc.
5. Same problem.
Something in my original document is buggering me around. For now I will save as jpg and import to original doc.

Thank you for everyone's help.
Text and Typography / Re: Barlow solid
« Last post by RodneyLee on March 09, 2018, 10:35:52 pm »
here is the barlow I used from the freefonts site mentioned before and modified in fontforge
Text and Typography / Re: Where: do I change doc default font size?
« Last post by a.l.e on March 09, 2018, 06:18:50 pm »
i've opened this ticket early this week:

the value in the preferences does something (setting the values for the default styles in the document you will create in the future), the ones in the document setup probably do nothing.
i'll add a note in the ticket linked above.
Layout Issues / Re: Battling with tables
« Last post by a.l.e on March 09, 2018, 06:13:55 pm »
the standard hint: don't do table in of scribus:

- tables are not a good way to provide information: try to avoid them (charts are way better!)
- tabulators often produce a nicer (and simpler to read) layout
- and if you really think you need a table, create it in libre office and import it as png, pdf, or svg (depending on the table and the scribus version)

imo, the tables tool should be hidden by default, since it's not ready for production
Text and Typography / Re: Please help me understand Styles
« Last post by a.l.e on March 09, 2018, 06:09:28 pm »
well, garry,  it depends on the size of your monitor.

i mostly have one of the properties palette open (but only one at a time)... but sometimes hide bot to access things that are otherwise below them.

on 1.5.3 you will probably have to learn about F2 (the "old" properties palettte) and F3 (the text palette), dock both to the right of your monitor and use the keyboard shortcut to display the one you currently need.
except if you have a huge display... but, even then, i'm not sure i would want to have both at the same time... the mouse will have to travel very far, to access the palettes...
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