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Author Topic: Layer  (Read 367 times)

michel56

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Layer
« on: June 08, 2018, 04:15:00 pm »
Hello,

When you open a PDF file created with Scribus and you want to print, all prints even the disabled layers.

Why when we generate PDF we do not have the option "Print when visible"

PDFs created with Autocad print correctly. In property of the layer of the pdf file, one has in printed "Print when visible"

Thank you.

************

Bonjour,

Lorsque l'on ouvre un fichier PDF crée avec Scribus et que l'on souhaite imprimer, tous s'imprime même les calques désactivés.

Pourquoi quand on génère le PDF on n'a pas l'option "Imprimer lorsque visible"

Les pdf créés avec Autocad s'impriment correctement. Dans propriété de la couche du fichier pdf, on a dans imprimé "Imprimer lorsque visible"

Merci.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 07:01:37 pm by michel56 »

RodneyLee

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Re: Layer
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 02:54:50 pm »
See the little black printer icon, select to print or not print

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 04:25:34 pm »
Hello,

That's how I did, I select the print icon in scribus, but later with the PDF reader we can not choose. He keeps this value.

Even if we disable a layer in the pdf reader it prints anyway.

With the default Ubuntu Evince reader it works but not with Acrobat Reader or Nuance PDF Reader.

***********************************************
Bonjour,

C'est comme ça que j'ai fait, je sélectionne l'icone imprimer dans scribus, mais après  avec le lecteur PDF on ne peut plus choisir. Il garde cette valeur.

Même si on désactive une couche dans le lecteur pdf elle s'imprime quand même.

Avec le lecteur par défaut d'Ubuntu Evince ça fonctionne mais pas avec Acrobat Reader ou Nuance PDF Reader.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 04:36:27 pm by michel56 »

RodneyLee

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Re: Layer
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 02:16:04 pm »
just guessing here, seems it must be with Adobe then, I Use linuxmint and it works fine like you said.

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 04:56:37 pm »
Yes, but a file generated with Autocad works well with adobe.

It does not print a layer if it is disabled.

**************
Oui mais un fichier généré avec Autocad fonctionne bien avec adobe.

Il n'imprime pas un calque si il est désactivé.

a.l.e

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Re: Layer
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 11:11:35 am »
bonjour michel

if the problem persists, please consider uploading a sample scribus file (collected for output with the font in use) and the pdf you have generated from it.

ciao
a.l.e

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 11:42:50 am »
Hello,

Here's a simple example with a Scribus file, a PDF, and a print preview with Adobe Reader.

When I print the PDF all layers are printed even if they are disabled in the adobe layer manager. With Evice on Ubuntu no problem.

With Autocad it works well. Except it's too complicated to handle the order of displaying layers. That's why I prefer Scribus.

***************************************

Bonjour,

Voici un exemple simple avec un fichier Scribus, un PDF et un aperçu avant impression avec Adobe Reader.

Quand j’imprime le PDF l'ensemble des calques est imprimé même s'il sont désactivés dans le gestionnaire de calque d'adobe. Avec Évice sur Ubuntu pas de problème.

Avec Autocad ça fonctionne bien. Sauf qu'il est trop compliqué pour gérer l'ordre d'affichage des calques. C'est pour cela que je préfère Scribus.


a.l.e

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Re: Layer
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 12:20:19 pm »
so, i've had a look at the .sla and the .pdf you have created.

what sticks out from the .sla file, is that you have many layers that are printable but not visible.

because they are printable, they will be included in the pdf.

i don't have any adobe acrobat on this machine, and i cannot test it with this program, but from what i'm writing (and what i understand from it) it seems that both scribus and adobe are doing the right thing and respect the the printable / visible flags.

i guess that evince and other viewer only respect the visible flag.
i've checked with inkscape, and all the layers are indeed included in the pdf, even if evince only shows me the visible ones (and i don't find any way to view the hiddens one).

there is probably a way to get the adobe products to behave in the way you want them to, maybe someone will be able to give you hints on that part.

finally, in the "preferences > preflight verifier" you can indeed get scribus to warn you when there is a mismatch between the "printability" and visibility of a layer (iirc it was a request of mine... and i would have preferred to have it on by default... but not everybody agreed with me on that latter point...).

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 01:52:44 pm »
It would take a "print when visible" flag in addition to "printable / visible"

Autocad does not offer the choice of the flag it creates it with this value "Print when visible" only.
Attached an overview with adobe. All layers are frozen and prints them anyway.

********
Il faudrait un drapeau "Imprimer lorsque visible" en plus de « imprimables / visibles »

Autocad ne propose pas le choix du drapeau il le crée avec cette valeur "Imprimer lorsque visible" uniquement.

En pièce jointe un apercu avec adobe. Tous les calques sont gelés et il les imprime quand même.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:57:31 pm by michel56 »

a.l.e

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Re: Layer
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 10:55:50 am »
can you please, what happens with a pdf created with scribus 1.5?
(i've attached it)

if i recall correctly, something has changed some time ago...

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 11:47:49 am »
Thanks for your help.

There is no change with Adobe Reader. All prints with the slaps disabled.

I had already tested with version 1.5 under Ubuntu.

*****************************************
Merci pour votre aide.

Il y a aucun changement avec Adobe Reader. Tous s'imprime avec les claques désactivés.

J'avais déjà tester avec la version 1.5 sous Ubuntu.

a.l.e

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Re: Layer
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 07:03:05 pm »
michel,

if i understand your posts correctly:

- adobe acrobat does not show the hidden layers but prints them.
- on the other side, scribus does not include the non-printable layers in the pdf.
- scribus can warn you if you have layers where the visibility and printability do not match. (sadly it's only optional)

personally, i don't know what invisible layers in adobe acrobat are good for (in a print workflow) and i would probably prefer that scribus does not include the information in the pdf it creates (so you can temporary hide a layer and still get it ti show up in the pdf and in print).
but this is not how scribus works.

since scribus is not a PDF authoring tool but a tool targeting the professional printing press, it would probably be more sensible to have the same behavior as autocad, but i don't think you will be able to convince the team of making the change.
(having them to make the "mismatch" warning activated by default would be already a big step!)

all in all, scribus and adobe reader seem to be doing the right thing, according to the pdf standard. so both are behaving correctly.
if you only consider the professional printing workflow, it's not the best behavior, but there is no formal error.
so, all you can do, is to enable the "mismatch" alert and hope for the best.

... if i understood you correctly.


*******

pas de chance.
c'est comme ça, et ça ne va pas changer.

ciao
a.l.e

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 09:36:21 pm »
622/5000
Scribus does include the unprintable layers in the PDF but the PDF reader can not print them. (except evince and okular)

I use scribus to make simple PDF with layers and printable on ordinary printer.

For autocad, it creates well pdf with layers but it remains limited.

Locked layers in scribus are always visible in the pdf. Their names do not appear in the Layer Manager and I find it great to insert a logo, copyright, page header, map legend ...

Wish that future versions of Scribus allow this type of printing.

Thank you.

*****************************************************************************

Scribus inclut bien les couches non imprimable dans le PDF mais le lecteur PDF ne peut pas les imprimer. (sauf évince et okular)

Je me sers de scribus pour faire des PDF simples avec calques et imprimables sur imprimante ordinaire.

Pour autocad, il crée bien des pdf avec calques mais il reste limité.

Les calques verrouillés dans scribus sont toujours visible dans le pdf. Leurs noms n'apparaissent pas dans le gestionnaire de calque et je trouve cela génial pour insérer un logo, copyright, en-tête de page, légende de carte...

A souhaiter que les prochaines versions de Scribus autorisent ce type d'impression.

Merci.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 09:53:56 pm by michel56 »

a.l.e

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Re: Layer
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 10:30:32 am »
i've created a sample .sla and .pdf and, from what i can tell:

- scribus does include the hidden layers in the pdf. evince ignores the flag and shows them.
- scribus does not include the "non printable" layers in the pdf. both evince and inkscape do not show them. but it also loses the layers information)
- locked layers do not matter. (they're only locked for editing in scribus)

all this seems correct to me.

as far as i know, adobe acrobat has features to manage the layers that it finds in the pdf (and it should not find the layers that are not printable; inkscape does not find them), but i cannot test it for you.

what exactly should scribus change?

michel56

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Re: Layer
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 12:26:11 pm »
- The layers locked in scribus are clearly visible in the PDF but not in the list of layers.

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- Les couches verrouillées dans scribus sont bien visible dans le PDF mais pas dans la liste des calques.

 

palmate