Author Topic: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook  (Read 658 times)

krikouille

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Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« on: October 14, 2016, 01:23:19 am »
Hi there

I am trying to make a photobook to be printed from Blurb, of course using Scribus. I did manage to set up the layout for the interior but I am having issues with the cover pdf file to be generated. This is not specifically a Scribus problem, I am just unable to figure out which of the different mesures / values correspond to Scribus options when defining a new doc. Well, I hope someone knows and can help!

Here are the different spefification provided by Blurb:

Code: [Select]
Page Specifications Points
Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 693 x 594
Page size / trim line (w x h) 684 x 576
Bleed (top, bottom, and outside edges) 9
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (Top, Bottom, Outside Edge) 18
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (Binding Edge) 45

Cover Specifications Points
Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 1395 x 594
Total Page size / trim line (w x h) 1377 x 576
Bleed (all edges) 9
Flaps (w x h, measured from trim edge to fold) none
[b]Gutter / Spine (w x h) 9 x 594
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (from edge of trim) 18[/b]

So here are my questions:
- Do I have to set a 1 page or a 2 page layout for the cover?
- I particularly do not know where to set the bolded specifications (Gutter / spine and inset of margin). Do I specifiy this when setting dimensions of a new document or do I do this at a later stage?

Cheers

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2016, 09:35:51 am »
As far as I know you have no support in Scribus to set the size of the area "outside" the page. Bleed can be set, but Scribus adds additional space outside the bleed that you have no control over.

This means you need to forget everything about bleed i Scribus.

You should create a 1 page document for the cover and then add guides for the different dimensions.

As for what the different things mean, I'll leave that to someone who has experience in this, you might need to calculate some of the dimensions.

utnik

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 11:43:16 am »
hi kirkouille

you need a single page for your cover.
the page size is 1377×576pt with 9pt bleeds all around.
…and you need to check 'use document bleeds' in the 'pre-press' tab of the export window. otherwise you'll lose your bleeds.

Bleed can be set, but Scribus adds additional space outside the bleed…
…only if you check some of the printer marks. (they need some place to live on…)
Quote
This means you need to forget everything about bleed i Scribus. You should create a 1 page document for the cover and then add guides for the different dimensions.
…this is really bad advice – scribus deals very well with bleeds!

utnik
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:54:21 am by a.l.e »

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 09:58:16 am »
…this is really bad advice – scribus deals very well with bleeds!

Can you tell me how I can control the space Scribus adds outside the bleed area?

Scribus adds bleed as it should, but it also adds extra space outside the bleed (to accommodate for crop marks etc) and that space can (as far as I know) not be controlled.

But it may be that Scribus does not add this extra space of you do not use any marks.

But then comes the printer capability, they might not be able to handle a PDF with a page size of 1377x576 with 9 mm bleed.

It may be very important that the "Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 1395 x 594".
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:54:39 am by a.l.e »

utnik

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 10:25:15 am »
hi nermander


But then comes the printer capability, they might not be able to handle a PDF with a page size of 1377x576 with 9 mm bleed.
when a printer specifies this size, he can handle it!

Quote
It may be very important that the "Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 1395 x 594".
that's exactly the export size of a 1377×576pt page with 9pt bleeds, as long as you don't add printer marks – and this printer doesn't need any printer marks, otherwise his specs would look different.

utnik
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:55:53 am by a.l.e »

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 01:40:34 pm »
You are ignoring the PDF boxes now.
https://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/page-boxes

A 1395x594 page with 9 mm "margin" will have a PDF TrimBox of 1395x594

A 1377x576 page with 9 mm "margin" will have a PDF TrimBox of 1377x576.

Both will have a MediaBox that is 1395x964.

So if the printers software can not handle PDF boxes you may get problems.

It's very easy to forget these boxes since they often don't shown, but they are very important.

utnik

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 02:28:51 pm »
hi nermander

these boxes are exactly what the whole thread is about – i never ignore them!

…but we're not talking about margins here, it's about bleeds! – and it's the bleedbox which will increase. the trimbox won't be modified. (the mentioned mediabox contains every exported item. that's why it will be larger than the bleedbox when you check some of the printer marks.)

as long as kirkouille doesn't select any of these printer marks during the .pdf export, the file will be as specified. (even when the printer would ignore the boxes…)

utnik

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 03:41:11 pm »
But the specification does not mention TrimBox or BleedBox, it says that "Final, exported PDF should measure". Is this TrimBox or MediaBox?

The problem is not if the printer ignores the boxes, the problem is if the printer will crop the document at the TrimBox before printing (which means you loose all bleed).




utnik

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 03:59:31 pm »
hi nermander


take a look at the specs provided by the printer and ask yourself, if this printer will crop to trim size before printing!!!


this is my final post in this topic.


utnik

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 09:29:17 am »
The specification does not say. And that is my point: If it does not say, you can not be sure.

a.l.e

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 11:01:52 am »
hi nermander,

i don't have the tools to check, so i have to ask you to do it:

if you have any evidence, that scribus 1.5.x adds any space on top of the bleed, you should create a ticket on https://bugs.scribus.net and add a .sla and .pdf file (and eventually log files) that show the issue.

concerning blurb itself:

i did some quick googling and the blurb's how-to

https://support.blurb.com/hc/en-us/articles/207792876-Trim-and-Bleed-Guidelines-for-Blurb-s-InDesign-Plug-in

compared with the indesign manual

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/how-to/set-print-bleed.html

seem to suggest that they correctly manage the boxes.


IMO, when talking about such a big printer as blurb, evidence should be brought before suggesting to hack in the images in a way that might not work.
(having evidences that scribus correctly works with blurb would be even better!)

of course, suggesting the user to ask for a proof is for sure a good idea...

Nermander

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Re: Cover page layout for Blurb photobook
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 12:49:59 pm »
My suggestion was to do exactly as the specification wrote: Make the PDF Final dimensions according to the specification. Just like we used to do before Scribus got support for "real" bleed. As a precaution 

What is important here is that the PDF will be printed at 100% scale. I do not think Blurb uses the TrimBox for trimming, they will just trim 9 mm of each side. I think this is what most printers do, their trimming machines have no connection to the RIP.

The risk is that the PDF will get printed cropped to the CropBox, and if the CropBox is set to the same as the TrimBox it will be printed in the wrong scale. It depends what Blurb uses for the printing.

Since they obviosly target customers who are lay persons they would surely be able to handle a PDF created from example Word or Photoshop, and such PDF:s will most likely not have a BleedBox.

 

palmate