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Author Topic: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.  (Read 784 times)

larry

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1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:41:06 am »
Is anyone else experiencing below on a pc with lots more RAM? I don't want to add RAM only to find out later that it doesn't help.

1. Hangs sometimes (Text Frame) after calling up Properties window.
2. Hangs (Text Frame) after computer back on from rest.
3. Edit Text cannot be selected n greyed out sometimes.
4. Crashes when select all

Note:
4 GB RAM (insufficient?)
Only on 100+ pages document with graphics (some in lieu of tables). Was fine on smaller docs.

GarryP

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Re: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 03:25:19 pm »
Hello larry.

Scribus is - as far as I'm able to tell - totally memory-resident when it's running. This means that you need enough memory to hold all of the resources - the SLA file itself, fonts, images, etc. - that the document you're working on is using (as well as the OS itself, Scribus, and any other software you're running of course).

The amount of memory - both physical RAM and virtual memory - that you actually need is more dependant on which OS you're using than most people realise. Windows, historically, needs more memory to run happily than OSX does, and with Linux it really depends on the distro. This also changes depending on whether you're using a 32bit or 64bit OS version. (This is a big simplification but it's a useful rule-of-thumb.) For example, Windows 10 needs a minimum of 1GB RAM on 32bit and a minimum of 2GB RAM for 64bit whereas OSX El Capitan needs 2GB minimum but its memory management is much better than with Windows so it can run quite happily with 2GB while Windows will usually struggle quite a bit. And these are absolute minimums that the OS can comfortably work within for basic functions. Basically you can take that minimum off the amount of RAM you have and what's left is "usable" RAM. (Again, a big simplification.)

One thing you could do would be to use the Scribus "Collect For Output" function (not compressed) and look at the size of the folder that is created. (The collected output is everything that someone would need to re-create the document and therefore will give you an idea of the total size of all of the resources.) If the folder size is less than the amount of physical "usable" RAM that you have then you should be absolutely fine (unless you have done something weird with your virtual memory settings). On the other hand, if the folder size is way more than twice the size of your "usable" RAM then you might want to look at getting more RAM. Otherwise your machine will be page swapping memory between RAM and disk (virtual memory) far more than you might want it to (and it could be causing other problems).

With specific mention to the problems you're having, you would need to be much more detailed when explaining what's happening before anyone could diagnose what's going on.

For example: By way of explanation, for "Hangs sometimes (Text Frame) after calling up Properties window.":
1. What do you mean by "hang"? Exactly what "hangs"? Does the "hang" end or do you need to restart something?
2. What do you mean by "sometimes"? Is it frequent or is there a pattern depending on use or document size/type?
3. What does "(Text Frame)" mean in this context? Are you clicking on a text frame? Are you moving a text frame? Are you right-clicking on a text frame? Are you trying to edit a text frame? Are you changing a text frame's properties etc. etc.
4. Why are you "calling up" the Properties Palette. It's way more usual to have this open all of the time. The general recommendation is never to close it unless you want to deliberately make more work for yourself.

Apologies if the above might sound picky but its very difficult to diagnose problems without knowing exactly what's going on and in what context. If you can supply more information then someone might be able to help further.

larry

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Re: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 03:10:58 am »
Thanks GarryP. Added RAM yesterday but still hangs sporadically. This time after making some amendments to the text in scribus, switch to browser and then back to scribus.

I need to log these scribus hang instances precisely from now. Getting caught up in the workflow without being detailed is not helping the diagnosis I know. Apologies.

1. Basically, what happens is that I cannot select any text frames after it hangs. It does not end but thankfully, I can still save the file and just restart.
2. Generally, there is no problem if I just avoid opening windows properties. I never had this issue when I was starting the file, only lately after the pages and content grew. The only pattern I see so far is opening the windows properties and switching to browser and back.
3. I click on a text frame and I cannot select the frame. The edit text function in mennu is thus greyed out.
4. Bad habit I guess. When I add styles or open other windows, I close existing ones. Will try keeping it open throughout.

Will log religiously from now. And also not have any other stuff like browsers open to try to isolate the cause.

Thanks again. Fingers crossed

larry

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Re: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 06:50:33 am »
Update

I think I've managed to narrow it down. The scribus hang issue cropped up again when I opened the Properties window and used Character Style to bold some headings in a paragraph.

Workaround
I've stopped using Character Style in Properties window. Currently, creating a lot more paragraph styles, paragraph headings with bold, instead of using just one character style bold for headings. No problem so far. Even when opening browsers to type this with Scribus open. Checked twice.

GarryP

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Re: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 12:13:18 pm »
You're welcome larry.

I understand that it can be difficult to be precise about what happens before a problem occurs because you're concentrating on what you're doing and what you want to do next rather than trying to remember what has happened just in case something goes wrong.

I myself have a long-standing issue where, after prolonged use, right-clicking no longer pops up the contextual menu. I have to restart Scribus to get it working again. The problem is that telling the developers to "Use Scribus for a couple of hours and the same thing might happen to you" doesn't give them much to work from.

I've noticed - as you have - that Scribus sometimes has "trouble" when becoming active again after using another application but I can't give precise details and I doubt the developers would be able to test it against an exact copy of my set-up to see what could be wrong.

Also, sometimes this kind of problem is caused by the underlying Qt code that Scribus is built using. An example of this is where the "Open" dialog doesn't (or at least it didn't used to) keep track of bookmarked folders in OSX. It looks like it's a Scribus problem when it's actually the Qt code that's to blame.

All you can do is keep a log of the last thing you did when this kind of problem occurs and see if there's any kind of pattern that emerges over time. For example, is it always when you switch back from Firefox or does it not matter which other application you switched back from? Or is it always when you come back from any type of browser but not other apps? Etc. Etc. This sort of thing can be hard to track down.

It's a shame that adding more RAM didn't make the problem go away but you should be a little more "future-proofed" in general now.

As for styles, I'd recommend still creating character styles but then basing paragraph styles on them. That way you have a lot more control over large formatting changes.

For instance: Say you need body text and heading text to be based on the same font but have different sizes and weights. Create a character style called "Base" giving it the properties you want the body text to be. Then create a new character style called "Heading" changing the size and weight of the font. Then create a paragraph style called "Body" based on the "Base" character style. Then create a paragraph style "Heading" based on the "Heading" character style. Format the paragraphs as you wish. Then, if you decide to use a different font, you can change it in the "Base" style and all of the body and heading formatting will change automatically.

It's a powerful feature that can save a boat-load of time if you're prepared to put a little effort in at the start.

Anyway, I hope you figure out what's causing your problem so that you can report it and get it fixed for everyone.

larry

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Re: 1.4.6 hangs. Same with 1.4.5.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 04:04:52 am »
Noted and Thanks GarryP.

I am already doing styles as suggested by changing and using default body text and then making various sized headings and also paragraphs based on top amended body text.

Will start using character styles again when I start a new work document and log if issues come up.

 

palmate