Author Topic: Export to PDF function  (Read 21893 times)

Desh

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Export to PDF function
« on: July 11, 2011, 08:19:53 pm »
Hi all,

Can someone help me pls? I tried to export my Scribus file to PDF and the file gets created without issues but the resulting pages come out as images. I cannot select the text from the PDF. Is this a Scribus limitation?

Thanks

John_Jason_Jordan

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 09:00:18 pm »
Can someone help me pls? I tried to export my Scribus file to PDF and the file gets created without issues but the resulting pages come out as images. I cannot select the text from the PDF. Is this a Scribus limitation?

When you export to PDF the dialog box has a tab for fonts. Make sure they are not set to "outline."

For future reference, it is helpful to state the version of Scribus you are using and your operating system.
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Desh

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 05:35:27 pm »
Thanks John but there is nothing in the "fonts to outline" section of the Fonts tab. I still cannot select text in the pdf file. I am using version Scribus 1.3.3.14 and the OS is Windows 7 Professional

I am beginning to feel this is a tool limitation in Scribus  :(

Meho R.

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 07:05:12 pm »
Is there anything in "Available Fonts" part? If yes, first try embedding the fonts (press "Embed All") and if fonts cannot be embedded, try outlining them (press "Outline All").

You can force fonts to be embeddable by unchecking "Subset" mark in File >  Preferences > Fonts for font you want embedded.

John_Jason_Jordan

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 08:11:39 pm »
Thanks John but there is nothing in the "fonts to outline" section of the Fonts tab. I still cannot select text in the pdf file. I am using version Scribus 1.3.3.14 and the OS is Windows 7 Professional
I am beginning to feel this is a tool limitation in Scribus  :(

It's not a limitation of Scribus, but it might be a limitation of the font(s) you are using. Although unusual these days, some fonts contain a "do not embed" flag that the developer added in order to stop piracy. Scribus will recognize that flag and refuse to embed the font, although I think you can override that with Meho's suggestion.

Some definitions may help:

Embed: Place into the PDF a copy of every glyph contained in the font together with all the font information. There are tools that can extract an embedded font from a PDF, which is why some developers have set the "do not embed" flag, even some developers of open source fonts. Adobe did this briefly, but they got yelled at so loudly that they no longer do it. It is unlikely that the fonts you are using have the "do not embed" flag set, but don't rule out the possibility.

Subset: Place into the PDF every glyph and the font information for them, but only for glyphs actually used in the document. Some PDF creator applications allow you to specify a percentage of the glyphs instead of all the glyphs used in the document.

Outline (also "convert to paths"): Convert all the glyphs into vector images. The advantage is that this eliminates any possibility of the PDF failing to print because of a missing font, plus it makes the PDF file much smaller. However, as you have discovered, the text is no longer text and cannot be selected.

A few things are clear:

1) Scribus certainly can, and normally does, embed fonts. I've done it for years and the text in the PDF is selectable. That your text is not selectable in the PDF is proof that Scribus converted the fonts to outlines. Why and how to make Scribus embed the font instead are the questions.

3) The version of Scribus you are using is really old. The current development version (1.4.0 RC5) is almost ready to be released as the next stable version. I would recommend you install it to take it for a spin. I use it now for production work (but I save often, just in case). You can install 1.4.0 RC5 alongside 1.3.3.14. But having suggested that I must caution you that the file format has changed for 1.4.0. Version 1.4.0 can open 1.3.3.14 files, but not the other way around. So before opening an existing file in 1.4.0 make a copy of it with you file manager (Windows Explorer).

I would also suggest opening a new, blank document and create some text frames, but use different fonts. This is just an experiment, so just create random frames with random text. Export to PDF and see what shows up in the fonts tab of the PDF export dialog box. Finish the export and see if any of the text is selectable in Adobe Reader.

And speaking of Adobe Reader, it has a feature that will tell you what fonts are embedded or subsetted in the document. I'm betting that for the PDF where your text is not selectable it will indicate no fonts.

That was a lot, but hopefully somewhere in the above you will find a way to figure out what is going on and how to remedy the situation.
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Meho R.

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 10:49:07 pm »
...
Outline (also "convert to paths"): Convert all the glyphs into vector images. The advantage is that this eliminates any possibility of the PDF failing to print because of a missing font, plus it makes the PDF file much smaller. However, as you have discovered, the text is no longer text and cannot be selected...
Now here's an interesting thing: your explanation is perfectly logical, but it seems that in Scribus, even when outlining fonts, the text is still selectable, can be copied, and search functions normally. Fonts are displayed in PDF properties, but, unlike embedded fonts, use some cryptic names, which is to be expected since they're outlined. Here's an example PDF file, created with Scribus 1.4.0.rc5, with "Outline All", using Adobe Garamond Pro, Adobe Caslon Pro and Minion Pro OpenType fonts.

John_Jason_Jordan

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 01:47:13 am »
...
Outline (also "convert to paths"): Convert all the glyphs into vector images. The advantage is that this eliminates any possibility of the PDF failing to print because of a missing font, plus it makes the PDF file much smaller. However, as you have discovered, the text is no longer text and cannot be selected...
Now here's an interesting thing: your explanation is perfectly logical, but it seems that in Scribus, even when outlining fonts, the text is still selectable, can be copied, and search functions normally. Fonts are displayed in PDF properties, but, unlike embedded fonts, use some cryptic names, which is to be expected since they're outlined. Here's an example PDF file, created with Scribus 1.4.0.rc5, with "Outline All", using Adobe Garamond Pro, Adobe Caslon Pro and Minion Pro OpenType fonts.

Looking at your sample PDF I see what you mean. However, going into File > Properties in Adobe Reader reveals that Scribus apparently converted the OTF fonts to Type 3 fonts. Wikipedia says a Type 3 font is:

Type 3 font (also known as, PostScript Type 3 or PS3, T3 or Adobe Type 3) consists of glyph defined using the full PostScript language, rather than just a subset. Because of this, a Type 3 font can do some things that Type 1 fonts cannot do, such as specify shading, color, and fill patterns. However, it does not support hinting. Adobe Type Manager does not support Type 3 fonts.

I dimly recall something about Type 3 being bitmap images instead of vector outlines, although Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about image format.

Nevertheless, your discovery is interesting. I could swear that I have had to outline fonts in the past and the text was not selectable in the resulting PDF. I remember it clearly because I had to change to a different font. But that was with 1.3.5 a year or so ago. Maybe something has changed in the way fonts are outlined now. And if so, our original poster could solve his problem by installing the latest release candidate.
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a.l.e

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 02:41:02 pm »
when outlining fonts, 1.3.3.x will create paths (and the text will not be selectable in the PDF).
in 1.4, scribus will subset the font and the text will still be selectable.

this has been changed at some time after 1.3.5svn has been started...

Desh

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 05:49:56 pm »

But that was with 1.3.5 a year or so ago. Maybe something has changed in the way fonts are outlined now. And if so, our original poster could solve his problem by installing the latest release candidate.

I tried with Scribus 1.4 RC 5. Doesn't work either. What am I doing wrong??  :(

Desh

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 06:07:58 pm »
Tried with a brand new document too. In File->preferences-> Fonts

Calibri regular -> selected "Embed in postscript"
Deselected subset

When creating the PDF, selected "Embed All"

Still, text cannot be selected in the resulting PDF. No fonts show up in PDF properties. The dialog box space is empty

Meho R.

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 12:30:36 am »
That's really strange. Try opening and exporting to PDF the document in the attachment. It's plain doc with a text frame containing some dummy text, using Times New Roman font.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 12:33:28 am by Meho R. »

Desh

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 06:58:13 am »
That's really strange. Try opening and exporting to PDF the document in the attachment. It's plain doc with a text frame containing some dummy text, using Times New Roman font.

Would you mind trying this with Calibri regular please? The problem is only in some fonts and "Times New Roman" is not one of the problem fonts. Calibri regular is  :(

Desh

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 10:01:05 am »
That's really strange. Try opening and exporting to PDF the document in the attachment. It's plain doc with a text frame containing some dummy text, using Times New Roman font.

HI Meho, I tried opening your document. "Liberation Serif Regular" font is not in my system so I had to replace that with Arial Regular. Other than that, PDF gets created and text is selectable just fine.

John_Jason_Jordan

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 11:08:15 am »
That's really strange. Try opening and exporting to PDF the document in the attachment. It's plain doc with a text frame containing some dummy text, using Times New Roman font.

HI Meho, I tried opening your document. "Liberation Serif Regular" font is not in my system so I had to replace that with Arial Regular. Other than that, PDF gets created and text is selectable just fine.

If Calibri is the only font that the problem happens with, then the problem is with Calibri.

I don't have Windows, so I don't have the Calibri font. I recommend installing Fontmatrix (I believe there is a Windows version now) because it is very good at figuring out the properties of a font.

If it turns out that Calibri has a "do not embed" flag, then the best solution is to use a different font. There are tons of free, open source fonts available that will work on all platforms. Just google a bit to find them.

If you are a beginner at desktop publishing I recommend that you take a side trip for a bit and learn about fonts and design.
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Meho R.

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Re: Export to PDF function
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 01:40:12 pm »
It's not only Calibri font, but other fonts from Microsoft ClearType fonts that comes with MSO PowerPoint Viewer 2007. Embedding isn't the problem, since using those fonts in LibreOffice and exporting to PDF works as expected.

Desh, I suggest that, if nobody provides an explanation here, you ask about this at Scribus mailing list, maybe some of devs might know why is Scribus outlining the fonts (as in "real" outlining/converting to path John wrote about in his first post) instead of subsetting and/or embedding them.

 

palmate